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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 6969042" data-attributes="member: 996">That's clear, yes.  I'd consider a returning player anyone who's been away from the game for a number of years.  If I had to take a guess at the mode-average/representative 'returning' player, I'd say returning to the hobby after having last played AD&D prior to 2000, if only because the fad years were in the 80s.And, BTW, there are folks who have been playing 2e AD&D or earlier /all this time/, and are 'transitioning' from that to 5e.  So prettymuch on the same page.  They're less hung up on minor differences, for instance.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />  But while it's a clear difference, I don't agree it's stark.  Their general expectation of what D&D is will be similar.  I can't agree.  I've run games for both sorts in the past.  Even if they don't remember a lot of the details of the rules from their time playing D&D, they remember the some of the classes, have expectations about what they're like, have already come to terms with D&Dims, not just mechanics, but conventions that stray far from the genre.  New players still have to go through that whole acclimatization process. For returning players, sure, it can be.  They're not puzzling over the very concept of roleplaying, they know what classes are (and to start with the fighter, 'cause it'll be simpler), they know that they'll be exploring dungeons, watching out for traps, fighting monsters, collecting treasure, etc...That sounds obvious because it is once you've done it.  Even 20 years later.Well, maybe - not every long-time D&Der is an optimizer or considers 'skilled play' the object of the game.  What they will tend to do is skim through and note how the new ed is different from the old.  They look for the differences among the similarities.  5e works fine for that. Returning players look for familiar things (that they do remember or that trigger memory) as a starting point, and fill in the blanks, they may or may not note which bits are new or different.  5e, with it's emphasis on classic feel, is just about ideal for them.New players don't do either.  They have to take in the whole thing.  5e's not so conducive to that.  It's very complex and inconsistent, since it's had to retain enough similarity to multiple past editions to make returning and transitioning players comfortable.The target audience for 5e is clearly existing and returning fans of the game, yes.The game is built to Empower the DM to impose the playstyle he wants.  The whole sorta 'modular' (not the word I'd've used, but oh well) design approach, with many different optional pieces, supports that.But, it's most practical to get to the desired style by opting into modules or banning things you don't care for.  Modding is harder, but experienced DMs, even (especially!) returning ones, are probably accustomed to that.  And, of course, it's up to the DM to do it.  They're not great, but there are encounter guidelines, no matter how over the top a set of players might be, there's a setting on the dial that'll challenge them, it might be some ungodly multiple of 'hard,' but it's just a matter of choosing to present the challenge...If the expectation is a game that's clear/simple/consistent and just works out the box, it's "broken."  If the expectation is that the game will be D&D, it's fine, just season to taste.</blockquote>

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