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last encounter was totally one-sided
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<blockquote data-quote="matskralc" data-source="post: 6980092" data-attributes="member: 6802405"><p>I meant "complicated" as compared to other resource management games, not other editions of D&D or even other RPGs.</p><p></p><p>However, D&D, no matter the edition, is not an easy game. Many of us forget this because we've been playing this game for years or even decades and it's become second nature to us. We all know plenty of people who think a 16-page booklet makes a board game complicated. D&D blows that out of the water. Don't act like D&D isn't a complicated game when I can't get some people to play it because the 300+ page player's handbook is too much for them to bother trying to learn. And that has nothing on what a DM has to try and learn in order to run the game.</p><p></p><p>I know you despise being reminded of this, but you keep addressing high-level play in a vacuum that is separate from your playing style. You are the one allowing players to concentrate on extra spells and carry around extra high-level PCs in their pockets while utilizing subpar tactics with your monsters. I rarely, if ever, have to alter the environment or buff up monsters or spring things on the players in order to challenge high-level PCs because I run my monsters with an ounce of tactical sense and I don't load the game up with pro-PC house rules and magic items.</p><p></p><p>Neither of us is having the "correct" kind of fun; such an idea is nonsensical. But, one of us is working within the parameters of the game's design and is not frustrated. The other is working outside of the game's core assumptions, and is becoming frustrated. The fact that this game functions as expected for some and not so much for others is not exactly a strong argument in favor of "something is broken with the game's design".</p><p></p><p>You're basically sitting down to play blackjack in which the players get to play two hands each and ignore the first hit that puts them over 21 while you, the dealer, stand on anything above a 12. Of course you're going to have trouble challenging the players. You've turned the game's expectation on its head.</p><p></p><p>I mean, you condescend to say thinks like "gee, they had to spell that out for you to know it. Unbelievable." as it regards things like the adventuring day, yet you complain that the designers don't spell out enough stuff in a monster's stat block or an encounter design chapter for you that the rest of us don't seem to have trouble understanding despite having far less experience at this than you do.</p><p></p><p>I don't want you to play a game in any particular way for its own sake. I don't care about which method is "better" or not. I just see a guy who wants to play <em>this </em>game and finds it to be frustrating. I want that guy to not be frustrated. I want you to have fun playing this game. But you insist on playing the game in a way that the game doesn't expect to be played and no matter how many times somebody "spells that out for you for you to know it", you insist that the real problem is that creature stat blocks aren't long and complicated enough or something. </p><p></p><p>It just seems weird to complain that the game doesn't really support a play style that it just about explicitly rejects.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="matskralc, post: 6980092, member: 6802405"] I meant "complicated" as compared to other resource management games, not other editions of D&D or even other RPGs. However, D&D, no matter the edition, is not an easy game. Many of us forget this because we've been playing this game for years or even decades and it's become second nature to us. We all know plenty of people who think a 16-page booklet makes a board game complicated. D&D blows that out of the water. Don't act like D&D isn't a complicated game when I can't get some people to play it because the 300+ page player's handbook is too much for them to bother trying to learn. And that has nothing on what a DM has to try and learn in order to run the game. I know you despise being reminded of this, but you keep addressing high-level play in a vacuum that is separate from your playing style. You are the one allowing players to concentrate on extra spells and carry around extra high-level PCs in their pockets while utilizing subpar tactics with your monsters. I rarely, if ever, have to alter the environment or buff up monsters or spring things on the players in order to challenge high-level PCs because I run my monsters with an ounce of tactical sense and I don't load the game up with pro-PC house rules and magic items. Neither of us is having the "correct" kind of fun; such an idea is nonsensical. But, one of us is working within the parameters of the game's design and is not frustrated. The other is working outside of the game's core assumptions, and is becoming frustrated. The fact that this game functions as expected for some and not so much for others is not exactly a strong argument in favor of "something is broken with the game's design". You're basically sitting down to play blackjack in which the players get to play two hands each and ignore the first hit that puts them over 21 while you, the dealer, stand on anything above a 12. Of course you're going to have trouble challenging the players. You've turned the game's expectation on its head. I mean, you condescend to say thinks like "gee, they had to spell that out for you to know it. Unbelievable." as it regards things like the adventuring day, yet you complain that the designers don't spell out enough stuff in a monster's stat block or an encounter design chapter for you that the rest of us don't seem to have trouble understanding despite having far less experience at this than you do. I don't want you to play a game in any particular way for its own sake. I don't care about which method is "better" or not. I just see a guy who wants to play [I]this [/I]game and finds it to be frustrating. I want that guy to not be frustrated. I want you to have fun playing this game. But you insist on playing the game in a way that the game doesn't expect to be played and no matter how many times somebody "spells that out for you for you to know it", you insist that the real problem is that creature stat blocks aren't long and complicated enough or something. It just seems weird to complain that the game doesn't really support a play style that it just about explicitly rejects. [/QUOTE]
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