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<blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 8026036" data-attributes="member: 6696971"><p>One last post!</p><p></p><p>[USER=63]@RangerWickett[/USER]</p><p></p><p>Two things.</p><p></p><p>1) No one with any level of intellectual or emotional maturity would look at Joel as a hero...or a villain. If there is a hero in TLoU, its clearly Ellie. But even Ellie has problems being anointed with that status. One of the reasons TLoU was compelling because it forced privileged humans living unscathed in modernity to tangle with extraordinarily difficult and novel concepts like "who is Joel", "is this world redeemable", and "is it possible that a person could be right making that decision that Joel made."</p><p></p><p>Which bridges to 2...</p><p></p><p>2) With all due respect, "violence begets violence" is one of the most interrogated and unoriginal themes in human history. There is nothing novel about it and because it is so deeply interrogated (in both philosophy and in art), it has lost its compelling thrust.</p><p></p><p>And finally (and this is the other stuff I don't feel inclined to get into), "violence begets violence", regardless of its status as one of the most interrogated themes in human history, can be done and done well. But there are artifacts of this game (as an actual game) and pacing issues that deeply affect the thematic heft of this game. Everyone's mileage may vary on this one, but a sandbox game with side quest bloat (and bloat of the variety that pulled me out rather than drew me in) will struggle mightily with pacing and coherency issues (unless it is so carefully crafted). I definitely felt that in this game (where I didn't remotely feel that in the first game). And there are plenty of other gameplay artifacts that I have issues with, mostly centered around offscreen/expository dialogue/momentum.</p><p></p><p>As a standalone zombie apocalypse survival game though...I was mostly pleased (sans the metaplot).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Manbearcat, post: 8026036, member: 6696971"] One last post! [USER=63]@RangerWickett[/USER] Two things. 1) No one with any level of intellectual or emotional maturity would look at Joel as a hero...or a villain. If there is a hero in TLoU, its clearly Ellie. But even Ellie has problems being anointed with that status. One of the reasons TLoU was compelling because it forced privileged humans living unscathed in modernity to tangle with extraordinarily difficult and novel concepts like "who is Joel", "is this world redeemable", and "is it possible that a person could be right making that decision that Joel made." Which bridges to 2... 2) With all due respect, "violence begets violence" is one of the most interrogated and unoriginal themes in human history. There is nothing novel about it and because it is so deeply interrogated (in both philosophy and in art), it has lost its compelling thrust. And finally (and this is the other stuff I don't feel inclined to get into), "violence begets violence", regardless of its status as one of the most interrogated themes in human history, can be done and done well. But there are artifacts of this game (as an actual game) and pacing issues that deeply affect the thematic heft of this game. Everyone's mileage may vary on this one, but a sandbox game with side quest bloat (and bloat of the variety that pulled me out rather than drew me in) will struggle mightily with pacing and coherency issues (unless it is so carefully crafted). I definitely felt that in this game (where I didn't remotely feel that in the first game). And there are plenty of other gameplay artifacts that I have issues with, mostly centered around offscreen/expository dialogue/momentum. As a standalone zombie apocalypse survival game though...I was mostly pleased (sans the metaplot). [/QUOTE]
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