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<blockquote data-quote="RangerWickett" data-source="post: 8026768" data-attributes="member: 63"><p>Yeah, this Jim video has the same . . . hm, how to describe it?</p><p></p><p>Have you ever tried to explain some tech support thing to someone - click this, press that button, do this thing - and they just don't get it? And while not getting it, they get upset at the computer or TV or whatever, because they think it's badly designed? But really they're just failing to understand how it works?</p><p></p><p>That's how I feel when I hear Jim's complaints, and many other peoples. They just don't <em>get it</em>. They are misunderstanding what the game is doing, and they're blaming it for doing that thing badly.</p><p></p><p>About 8:45, Jim's talking about how the game wants you to recognize that NPCs are real people, and he sort of goes, "Duh, that's obvious! I don't need you to tell me that!"</p><p></p><p>But the fact that he's irked at that, and then irked that he is being made to play as Abby, and that he's not enjoying Abby's story as much as Ellie's, that's showing that he still is angry at Abby. He complains about the game manipulating you to like Abby, with a dog and such. He says this like it's a bad thing, like in the first game you weren't <em>just as manipulated</em> to like Ellie and feel for Joel. The only reason he finds this manipulation a problem, is because he hates Abby, and doesn't want to like her.</p><p></p><p>If you played Abby's story standalone, it'd be a fun game that follows beats very similar to TLOU1, in a cool environment, with some great setpieces. Yet <em>so many people </em>are saying they don't like it . . . because they don't like Abby.</p><p></p><p>If I were an English teacher and Jim turned this essay into me and I was supposed to grade it, I'd give it a B, but not an A, because he makes valid points about how the gameplay isn't always conducive to you coming to empathize with Abby. I mean, he gets that he's <em>supposed</em> to empathize with Abby. But he doesn't. And if he doesn't empathize with her, but does with Ellie, that never indicates that he doesn't understand the story.</p><p></p><p>You're not simply <em>watching</em> a revenge story where the protagonist comes to a realization at the end that revenge is pointless. You are <em>living through that</em>. The game wants you to be angry at Abby, and then to stop being angry at Abby.</p><p></p><p>And you're not supposed to hate Ellie either. You're supposed to feel sorry for these people, and see that at the end they're on paths toward healing. That's why we loved the first game, because it was about Joel changing from being heartless to being able to love and care again. In that game, we were sort of going through what Joel felt. We fell in love with Ellie too, and that was easy, because she's adorable, and most of us didn't lose a daughter to a zombie apocalypse.</p><p></p><p>This is much harder. We're supposed to go through what Ellie feels, and forgive Abby, and most people are only getting part way through it.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="RangerWickett, post: 8026768, member: 63"] Yeah, this Jim video has the same . . . hm, how to describe it? Have you ever tried to explain some tech support thing to someone - click this, press that button, do this thing - and they just don't get it? And while not getting it, they get upset at the computer or TV or whatever, because they think it's badly designed? But really they're just failing to understand how it works? That's how I feel when I hear Jim's complaints, and many other peoples. They just don't [I]get it[/I]. They are misunderstanding what the game is doing, and they're blaming it for doing that thing badly. About 8:45, Jim's talking about how the game wants you to recognize that NPCs are real people, and he sort of goes, "Duh, that's obvious! I don't need you to tell me that!" But the fact that he's irked at that, and then irked that he is being made to play as Abby, and that he's not enjoying Abby's story as much as Ellie's, that's showing that he still is angry at Abby. He complains about the game manipulating you to like Abby, with a dog and such. He says this like it's a bad thing, like in the first game you weren't [I]just as manipulated[/I] to like Ellie and feel for Joel. The only reason he finds this manipulation a problem, is because he hates Abby, and doesn't want to like her. If you played Abby's story standalone, it'd be a fun game that follows beats very similar to TLOU1, in a cool environment, with some great setpieces. Yet [I]so many people [/I]are saying they don't like it . . . because they don't like Abby. If I were an English teacher and Jim turned this essay into me and I was supposed to grade it, I'd give it a B, but not an A, because he makes valid points about how the gameplay isn't always conducive to you coming to empathize with Abby. I mean, he gets that he's [I]supposed[/I] to empathize with Abby. But he doesn't. And if he doesn't empathize with her, but does with Ellie, that never indicates that he doesn't understand the story. You're not simply [I]watching[/I] a revenge story where the protagonist comes to a realization at the end that revenge is pointless. You are [I]living through that[/I]. The game wants you to be angry at Abby, and then to stop being angry at Abby. And you're not supposed to hate Ellie either. You're supposed to feel sorry for these people, and see that at the end they're on paths toward healing. That's why we loved the first game, because it was about Joel changing from being heartless to being able to love and care again. In that game, we were sort of going through what Joel felt. We fell in love with Ellie too, and that was easy, because she's adorable, and most of us didn't lose a daughter to a zombie apocalypse. This is much harder. We're supposed to go through what Ellie feels, and forgive Abby, and most people are only getting part way through it. [/QUOTE]
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