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Last week, the Level 14-16 party beat Graz'zt, 2 Marilith and a Storm Giant...easily
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<blockquote data-quote="TheSword" data-source="post: 9729664" data-attributes="member: 6879661"><p>Yes. Simply put.</p><p></p><p>I think there is a solution and that is to design high level encounters like a form of puzzle with interlocking parts.</p><p></p><p>The DM needs to synergise terrain, plot elements, and monster abilities to make a high level combat a challenge. In short they need to fine tune the antagonists to be effective as possible.</p><p></p><p>Reading your post has been a bit of eureka moment for me having ran a few campaigns to 20 level, most recently Age of Worms and finding some of the high level combat tedious at times. Now I reflect on it it’s obvious why really.</p><p></p><p>If you have a party that synergises with other PCs by granting them huge Paladin bonuses on saving throws for instance. Or uses terrain - bottlenecks/cover/environmental effect to their advantage. Or tactically selects the most beneficial targets and works as a concerted whole and squeezes every drop of potential out of their action economy. Then of course they are going to easily beat equal opponents that aren’t doing that. The higher the level the more they can synergise and affect the world around them.</p><p></p><p>I think a heck of a lot of thought has to be put into how high level combat is ran. The monsters and their stat blocks are not enough. I think we sometimes say D&D is badly designed at high level but the more I think about it, the more I am reaching the conclusion that it’s not, it’s just often the players and the DM are playing by a whole different set of expectations and norms.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="TheSword, post: 9729664, member: 6879661"] Yes. Simply put. I think there is a solution and that is to design high level encounters like a form of puzzle with interlocking parts. The DM needs to synergise terrain, plot elements, and monster abilities to make a high level combat a challenge. In short they need to fine tune the antagonists to be effective as possible. Reading your post has been a bit of eureka moment for me having ran a few campaigns to 20 level, most recently Age of Worms and finding some of the high level combat tedious at times. Now I reflect on it it’s obvious why really. If you have a party that synergises with other PCs by granting them huge Paladin bonuses on saving throws for instance. Or uses terrain - bottlenecks/cover/environmental effect to their advantage. Or tactically selects the most beneficial targets and works as a concerted whole and squeezes every drop of potential out of their action economy. Then of course they are going to easily beat equal opponents that aren’t doing that. The higher the level the more they can synergise and affect the world around them. I think a heck of a lot of thought has to be put into how high level combat is ran. The monsters and their stat blocks are not enough. I think we sometimes say D&D is badly designed at high level but the more I think about it, the more I am reaching the conclusion that it’s not, it’s just often the players and the DM are playing by a whole different set of expectations and norms. [/QUOTE]
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Last week, the Level 14-16 party beat Graz'zt, 2 Marilith and a Storm Giant...easily
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