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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7700784" data-attributes="member: 996">A net or additional +/-1 relative to the curve is a +/-1, no amount of 'tude changes that.  Pulling in the curve doesn't change that, if anything, it makes any modifier seem that much more significant.The maneuvers, themselves, don't 'scale,' (that is, aren't level-gated) though.  The BM's maneuvers are essentially appropriate to a 3rd level character, the same way an EK's first level spells are.  From there the BM's CS dice scale, slightly, and the EK's slots scale, a little more dramatically.  But the BM goes from 1st to 4th level spells, while the BM keeps choosing from the same list of Maneuvers.  5e mostly scales on hp/damage, and fighters are 'best'* at fighting (with weapons), on that scale, having excellent DPR thanks to multiple attacks/round.You'd think something like improve would just reduce out of the equation.  Really, though, it's not as simple as all classes getting to improve all the same stuff, making it a wash.  On the one hand, a class that has a large selection of powerful, push-button effects to call upon should improvise /less/ because they have less need to do so.  OTOH, a class with a diversity of such effects has more places to start from when improvising.  For instance, if you're in a wet environment, desiccating or freezing it might be an out-of-the-box way of changing the odds - if you had a cold-based spell, you just might do something like that.Yes.  A separate class would be more practical.Lol.Agreed.  While a limited-use maneuver that attacked all enemies in reach (like 3.x WWA) or made more than one attack roll (to some specific end) might be included, at-will multi-attacking is something that any maneuver-based alternative to the fighter would have to give up to open up design spaced to greater versatility.*in the advertising-claim sense of 'best,' ie:  "just as good as anyone else."</blockquote>

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