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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 6717836" data-attributes="member: 4937"><p>Mainly I think, because it doesn't happen to you. </p><p></p><p>But in any event, it doesn't actually do that. A spell like 'Owl's Wisdom' at least conceivably actually gets someone to listen to reason rather than categorically rejecting something. What charm person actually does is get a person to listen to you and give you greater consideration whether you are being reasonable or not. What charm person lets you do is get another person to listen to you when their reason would normally tell them to do otherwise. That is offensive. And naturally, everyone thinks that they are being reasonable...</p><p></p><p>And having a super-charismatic effect that makes everyone want to agree with you (or unable to disagree with you) certainly wouldn't help a person learn to rely on his reason to persuade people.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It's inherently abusive. What gray area? It's use constitutes abuse of the target. In fact, it and it's ilk are probably the most abusive possible ability. Pretty much anyone who thought it was a gray area and could be used without abuse, I wouldn't trust to use it. It pretty much to me falls in the category of why Gandalf couldn't be trusted to carry The One Ring, because it would tempt you to use the ability to dominate the minds of others out of a desire to help them and do good. </p><p></p><p>If you could justify using mind control to get people to be reasonable, then you could justify giving everyone Soma because it improved the net happiness and contentment. </p><p></p><p>This is Imperious Curse stuff. If you use it on someone without their consent, and without legitimate self-defense need - it's pretty much not forgivable. And even when you could reasonably justify it - the only other choice besides mind rape was killing them or possibly torturing them - there is still something a bit disgusting about it.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 6717836, member: 4937"] Mainly I think, because it doesn't happen to you. But in any event, it doesn't actually do that. A spell like 'Owl's Wisdom' at least conceivably actually gets someone to listen to reason rather than categorically rejecting something. What charm person actually does is get a person to listen to you and give you greater consideration whether you are being reasonable or not. What charm person lets you do is get another person to listen to you when their reason would normally tell them to do otherwise. That is offensive. And naturally, everyone thinks that they are being reasonable... And having a super-charismatic effect that makes everyone want to agree with you (or unable to disagree with you) certainly wouldn't help a person learn to rely on his reason to persuade people. It's inherently abusive. What gray area? It's use constitutes abuse of the target. In fact, it and it's ilk are probably the most abusive possible ability. Pretty much anyone who thought it was a gray area and could be used without abuse, I wouldn't trust to use it. It pretty much to me falls in the category of why Gandalf couldn't be trusted to carry The One Ring, because it would tempt you to use the ability to dominate the minds of others out of a desire to help them and do good. If you could justify using mind control to get people to be reasonable, then you could justify giving everyone Soma because it improved the net happiness and contentment. This is Imperious Curse stuff. If you use it on someone without their consent, and without legitimate self-defense need - it's pretty much not forgivable. And even when you could reasonably justify it - the only other choice besides mind rape was killing them or possibly torturing them - there is still something a bit disgusting about it. [/QUOTE]
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