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<blockquote data-quote="Nonlethal Force" data-source="post: 2700351" data-attributes="member: 35788">Yep, that happens ocasionally! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f60e.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":cool:" title="Cool&nbsp; &nbsp; :cool:"&nbsp; data-smilie="6"data-shortname=":cool:" />&nbsp; It is, of course, nice to be supported by another person's opinion ... although I admit the strong majority of this thread seems to support the whole &quot;Experienced players held accountable&quot; approach.Back on topic ... I really think the best solution is to start over - probably at level 3 to be honest.&nbsp; Reason I suggest not level 1 is because new DMs (at least I know this was true for me) don't realize how fragile level 1 characters are and level 1 characters often die at the hands of a new DM.&nbsp; But level 3 gives you a bit of time to realize the DM underestimated an encounter's power and you can flee.&nbsp; [Oh, btw, that also gives the DM a way to back off on the encounter the next time without having to look really dumb in the process.&nbsp; NOBODY likes looking dumb]&nbsp; But if you start at level 3 - there will be no PrCs involved.&nbsp; I'd also suggest CORE spells at the least - and probably CORE classes as well - but that should give the DM an ability to grow into being a DM.Remember, being a new DM to experienced players is threatening.&nbsp; No DM wants to make a mistake and no DM wants to look stupid ... because when the DM looks stupid it easy to think from the DM's perspective that now the players think the game is stupid as well.&nbsp; That is why an experienced player needs to take responsibility and ease the DM into the special abilities of a character.&nbsp; Only pull out one until the DM demonstrates that they can plan for it effectively.&nbsp; Then pull out another.&nbsp; Before too long, the DM is learning, and you are having fun together.And honestly, that is what it is all about.&nbsp; Please do us all a favor, though.&nbsp; Stop with the whole &quot;but the DM did this wrong&quot; plea.&nbsp; While the DM certainly made mistakes - I think we ALL agree on that - the DM is not experienced.&nbsp; So even if the DM made mistakes it was probably because the players were playing over the DM's head.&nbsp; Scrambling to cover one's behind leads to making mistakes.&nbsp; When the players are always outplaying the DM ... it leads to many mistakes and frustration.&nbsp; Which, of course, leads to DMs making rules about something being overpowered.&nbsp; If the experienced players are smart ... they'll ease the DM into the role.&nbsp; You'll retain all your abilities if you just bring them out slowly.&nbsp; But the catalyst in this case are the ones with experience.&nbsp; Namely - the OP and the friend.Take the foot off the gas pedal and get out of the passing lane.&nbsp; Let the DM catch up to you, rather than passing him by.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Nonlethal Force, post: 2700351, member: 35788"] Yep, that happens ocasionally! :cool: It is, of course, nice to be supported by another person's opinion ... although I admit the strong majority of this thread seems to support the whole "Experienced players held accountable" approach. Back on topic ... I really think the best solution is to start over - probably at level 3 to be honest. Reason I suggest not level 1 is because new DMs (at least I know this was true for me) don't realize how fragile level 1 characters are and level 1 characters often die at the hands of a new DM. But level 3 gives you a bit of time to realize the DM underestimated an encounter's power and you can flee. [Oh, btw, that also gives the DM a way to back off on the encounter the next time without having to look really dumb in the process. NOBODY likes looking dumb] But if you start at level 3 - there will be no PrCs involved. I'd also suggest CORE spells at the least - and probably CORE classes as well - but that should give the DM an ability to grow into being a DM. Remember, being a new DM to experienced players is threatening. No DM wants to make a mistake and no DM wants to look stupid ... because when the DM looks stupid it easy to think from the DM's perspective that now the players think the game is stupid as well. That is why an experienced player needs to take responsibility and ease the DM into the special abilities of a character. Only pull out one until the DM demonstrates that they can plan for it effectively. Then pull out another. Before too long, the DM is learning, and you are having fun together. And honestly, that is what it is all about. Please do us all a favor, though. Stop with the whole "but the DM did this wrong" plea. While the DM certainly made mistakes - I think we ALL agree on that - the DM is not experienced. So even if the DM made mistakes it was probably because the players were playing over the DM's head. Scrambling to cover one's behind leads to making mistakes. When the players are always outplaying the DM ... it leads to many mistakes and frustration. Which, of course, leads to DMs making rules about something being overpowered. If the experienced players are smart ... they'll ease the DM into the role. You'll retain all your abilities if you just bring them out slowly. But the catalyst in this case are the ones with experience. Namely - the OP and the friend. Take the foot off the gas pedal and get out of the passing lane. Let the DM catch up to you, rather than passing him by. [/QUOTE]

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