Lead the Attack Nerf future implications

[BobTheNob]

Ok, so they finally nerfed lead the attack. I can now throw out my houserule (I will throw it in the former houserule bucket, which just keeps getting bigger with every errata) and let the parties warlord use the power as proscribed. Its no longer a game breaker, hooray!

So why was it a game breaker? Well, anything that could put a +8-9 (talking epic here) on a creature till end of combat is just completely out of scale. I have thought so for a long time, and it appears the game designers agree. Tieing a stat bonus (other than the base stat) to a d20 roll is where the problem is, doing it for one round doesnt break things, doing it till end of encounter does.

The game has a very finely balanced sense of att vs defence which tries to stay to a +1 per level sensibility and generally bonus's tends to push it by a point here and there. Having any one power put that out of whack by the equivalent of 8-9 levels is controversial enough, till end of combat is just ridiculous.

So, given we now have precedent, does it follow that other powers which give a stat bonus to either attack or defence (i.e. d20 scaled numbers) till end of combat should go under the microscope.

For instance, Sorceror level 22 utility 'Platinum Scales' : After hit, gains Str bonus to All Defences till end of encounter. For a Dragon Magic Sorceror, this means they can easily just go "Ooo, I will add +7-9 to all my defences till end of encounter!". Putting aside arguments such as "Its a disincentive, hes a striker" and "Its in the rules, therefore thats how the designers intended it" (that one always makes me laugh) and other cliches like that, this is simply a massive bonus. I used character builder to put together a barbarian with an eternal seeker path...and took this. It was stupid what his defenses got to.

There is also a Radiant something Epic path which has a similar power but is Int tied...which our same Tac warlord is currently looking at!

So, anyone else out there anticipating other d20 based/stat linked powers coming under the microscope in future errata releases?

 

[Aulirophile]

Nope, and my group doesn't plan on using the Lead the Attack errata.

 

[fba827]

i like the ease of daily powers lasting until the end of the encounter (it's a lot easier for tracking purposes). So with that in mind, I would have prefered that they limited lead the attack (such as 1+1/2 Int mod for the rest of the encounter, or as a stance, rather than 1+ Int mod as originally written).

Also, though, with daily powers my experiences so far if you don't typically have the average 5 encounters per day, then really they get a little rediculous when you can nova them all in an encounter or two at even mid-heroic tier.

As for other daily powers that you mention, given my preference, -if they do get changed- i'd rather see them limited in effect (such as half-mod, or a flat +2 or something) rather than duration change.

 

[interwyrm]

IMO you should never see +/- stat mod to attacks or defenses.

It's ok to use stat mods for damage, DR, movement, forced movement, etc... but attacks and defenses are intended to have very finely tuned scaling.

I'm ok with +/- 1 till end of encounter or + 1/2 stat mod on next attack.

 

[Aegeri]

Lead the attack has always been a pretty broken and poorly designed power. It's always been one of 4Es worst powers for "I hit and we win" or "I hit and do jack all". A power that is an instant win button on a hit and basically worthless (and forgettable) on a miss is absolutely terrible power design.

In my opinion on a miss it should do 1+(1/2[int]) and on a hit still give the 1+[int]. It's got a pretty severe limitation attached to it as it only works for a round, plus removes the "Hit or absolutely suck" aspect out of it.

 

[BobTheNob]

Nope, and my group doesn't plan on using the Lead the Attack errata.

Isnt that the great bit about the game though, you dont need to take errata if you dont want. Your groups Warlord is likely sighing a breath of relief that you, the DM, decided to forgo it.

But putting aside your own disagreement with the errata are you saying it doesnt set a precedent or give some indication of the way the designers think about the games numeric sensibilities?

I guess I just saw a parallel and wondered whether others did.

(p.s. also to previous post. We use in house software I developed, we dont have any trouble keeping track of durations and effects, so the lead the attack errata is actually kind of nice)

 

[Aulirophile]

Isnt that the great bit about the game though, you dont need to take errata if you dont want. Your groups Warlord is likely sighing a breath of relief that you, the DM, decided to forgo it.

But putting aside your own disagreement with the errata are you saying it doesnt set a precedent or give some indication of the way the designers think about the games numeric sensibilities?

I guess I just saw a parallel and wondered whether others did.

(p.s. also to previous post. We use in house software I developed, we dont have any trouble keeping track of durations and effects, so the lead the attack errata is actually kind of nice)

Actually I'm a player in that group (Wizard). Thankfully everyone, including the DM, thought it was dumb. This might have something to do with the fact that auto-hitting one monster in one encounter per day is /yawn in days that have 9+ encounters.

 

[frankthedm]

I just wonder why this one took so long.

 

[Ryujin]

There is also a Radiant something Epic path which has a similar power but is Int tied...which our same Tac warlord is currently looking at!

You mean "Radiant One" ED? It's limited to Warlocks, gives no attribute bonuses, and the bonus damage (fire+radiant) is conditional upon combat advantage. Granted, the level+10 resist fire and radiant is nice. I have a reasonably nice setup for my Fey/Darklock that would benefit from it, using Shadow Warlock Armour, but the hit percentage is decidedly sub-optimal.

 

[Kingreaper]

Honestly, I feel LtA lost a bit too much of it's luster. It's now pure nova-material.

As such, it's not actually much less powerful for a bravura warlord like the one we used to have, but the player just doesn't like it anymore.

I'd have preferred it to become non-scaling, something like +4/+5 'til end of encounter on hit, +2 on miss. Still reasonably powerful, but a lot less swingy, and it's not really something that needs to be tied to a build.
I was considering discussing a houserule for it anyway. Definitely not putting it back the way it was, but not sure on how it is now.