Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
Playing the Game
Play by Post
Living Worlds
Living EN World
Leadership Revisions
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Rystil Arden" data-source="post: 3550542" data-attributes="member: 29014"><p>I guess you may have seen this, but I haven't seen it on any of my adventures as a GM or a PC. Plus, this doesn't address the roleplaying issue, nor does it actually allow a good opportunity for a character who wants a sidekick (particularly if they want a certain sort of sidekick). Let's pretend that we used your idea and eliminated Leadership. Now level 9 Vanitri goes to look for an existing PC 2 levels lower to be a sidekick as per your suggestion. Unfortunately, there's an incredibly slim list of pickings, and it's likely that those PCs are already on a separate adventure and/or don't want to be a lackey. SlagMortar's idea is nice because it essentially creates a new character (or builds off an existing NPC) that is exactly the right level and exactly the right kind of cohort, which can be an issue too (let's say a Merlin PC really really only wanted a Paladin cohort, his Arthur. He's going to have a bad surprise when he looks at the level of PC Paladins). </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>But in many cases, it does so far too quickly. At level 6, it starts out sort of reasonable (+33% XP for the lowbie), but it still means that the cohort will level up to 5 in the time it takes the level 6 guy to get halfway to 7, so you don't really maintain a cohort relationship for more than half a level (which can be nothing depending on how the adventure starts--I've seen a group get half a level in a week real time when the adventure started with a fight). At high levels, it becomes even more extreme. Let's say a level 10 Merlin PC takes a level 8 PC cohort. The level 8 guy is getting <em>60%</em> more XP, so he'll level in less than half the time, and then still 35% more at level 9, so he'll level up to 10 barely after the mentor hits 11, and then the cohort PC gets +36.36% XP, causing them to share part of level 11 at the same time. </p><p></p><p>Two important things to note from the example: First, this is only one level after the higher-level character grabbed the cohort that they are exactly the same level, so you barely get a cohort at all. </p><p></p><p>Second, edge effects can cause...greater concerns than this. For instance, one of my adventures just had a climactic encounter that gave 9250 XP to each 8th-level member of a group of 6s to 8s. Let's scale that up two levels by going diagonally down-right two from the closest number on the XP chart. We get 12000 for the level 10 guy and 19200 for the level 8 guy. But my numbers are slightly lower than the chart, so we'll say 10500 and 16900. This puts the cohort at level 9 (missing 100 XP) and the upper-level guy at just <em>barely</em> level 11. Now if they fight something weaker, say 6111 for the level 11 guy, the level 9 guy gains 10000 XP and levels to 10 (down 100 from level 11), while the level 11 guy isn't even two thirds of the way done yet. Now, if they fight something trivial (like a CR 4), they share a level for over 1/3rd of the level. </p><p></p><p>But what if they don't? I won't bother with the extended math, but it's possible for the cohort to wind up with more XP than the mentor by level 13. Yay for weird math (or not <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f615.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":confused:" title="Confused :confused:" data-smilie="5"data-shortname=":confused:" /> ).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Rystil Arden, post: 3550542, member: 29014"] I guess you may have seen this, but I haven't seen it on any of my adventures as a GM or a PC. Plus, this doesn't address the roleplaying issue, nor does it actually allow a good opportunity for a character who wants a sidekick (particularly if they want a certain sort of sidekick). Let's pretend that we used your idea and eliminated Leadership. Now level 9 Vanitri goes to look for an existing PC 2 levels lower to be a sidekick as per your suggestion. Unfortunately, there's an incredibly slim list of pickings, and it's likely that those PCs are already on a separate adventure and/or don't want to be a lackey. SlagMortar's idea is nice because it essentially creates a new character (or builds off an existing NPC) that is exactly the right level and exactly the right kind of cohort, which can be an issue too (let's say a Merlin PC really really only wanted a Paladin cohort, his Arthur. He's going to have a bad surprise when he looks at the level of PC Paladins). But in many cases, it does so far too quickly. At level 6, it starts out sort of reasonable (+33% XP for the lowbie), but it still means that the cohort will level up to 5 in the time it takes the level 6 guy to get halfway to 7, so you don't really maintain a cohort relationship for more than half a level (which can be nothing depending on how the adventure starts--I've seen a group get half a level in a week real time when the adventure started with a fight). At high levels, it becomes even more extreme. Let's say a level 10 Merlin PC takes a level 8 PC cohort. The level 8 guy is getting [I]60%[/I] more XP, so he'll level in less than half the time, and then still 35% more at level 9, so he'll level up to 10 barely after the mentor hits 11, and then the cohort PC gets +36.36% XP, causing them to share part of level 11 at the same time. Two important things to note from the example: First, this is only one level after the higher-level character grabbed the cohort that they are exactly the same level, so you barely get a cohort at all. Second, edge effects can cause...greater concerns than this. For instance, one of my adventures just had a climactic encounter that gave 9250 XP to each 8th-level member of a group of 6s to 8s. Let's scale that up two levels by going diagonally down-right two from the closest number on the XP chart. We get 12000 for the level 10 guy and 19200 for the level 8 guy. But my numbers are slightly lower than the chart, so we'll say 10500 and 16900. This puts the cohort at level 9 (missing 100 XP) and the upper-level guy at just [I]barely[/I] level 11. Now if they fight something weaker, say 6111 for the level 11 guy, the level 9 guy gains 10000 XP and levels to 10 (down 100 from level 11), while the level 11 guy isn't even two thirds of the way done yet. Now, if they fight something trivial (like a CR 4), they share a level for over 1/3rd of the level. But what if they don't? I won't bother with the extended math, but it's possible for the cohort to wind up with more XP than the mentor by level 13. Yay for weird math (or not :confused: ). [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
Playing the Game
Play by Post
Living Worlds
Living EN World
Leadership Revisions
Top