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<blockquote data-quote="Grogg of the North" data-source="post: 7152447" data-attributes="member: 6682960"><p>I think you've got some good advice here already. I'm a big fan of having a rival group take it out if the players get frustrated. Have the rival group rub the PCs nose in it. "Oh yea, it was really easy. We just lured it to this pass, dropped a net on it and killed it." And the townsfolk should start snubbing your PCs. Also arrowhawk poop. Nothing like insult to injury.</p><p></p><p>If I wanted to get the party to change tactics, I guess I would have the rider show up with the arrowhawk and specifically target the archer. Hound him and wear him down. Make it obvious that the rider feels the archer is the only threat. And then ... go for the TPK? If they have no answer to a flying monster then pick them off one at a time. And then go after the nearby town. Some of the townsfolk survive and flee into the mountains. Word spreads of the PCs incompetence and soon they are persona non grata in the region. </p><p></p><p>However, if they are trying to come up with a plan and they keep going around in circles it is your job as the DM to step in and offer advice. When the players are saying things like "That's a horrible plan. But it's the only plan we have!" it is a clear sign that you need to step in. Even something like "Hey guys, make a wisdom check. Okay, you remember that the creature was really concerned about the archer last time. And you know that only his arrows were able to hurt it consistently. The town has a bowyer and there is a caravan that recently came into town that you haven't checked out yet." </p><p></p><p>Maybe that caravan has a potion of fly, a useful scroll or a handful (1d20?) of magic arrows. Or you can use that wisdom check to remind the paladin that he can cast magic weapon. It may come off a bit heavy handed but I'd rather have a DM say "hey, you have this option!" than have him laughing at me for not grasping something that should be obvious.</p><p></p><p>Really, I think this comes down experience. My group has been playing for a while and everyone carries their preferred weapon, a ranged weapon and at least a dagger. Because when you get swallowed by the big monster you better have an answer to "How do you escape?". I'm not saying that you need to have a golf bag full of weapons but you don't want to be "That guy".</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Grogg of the North, post: 7152447, member: 6682960"] I think you've got some good advice here already. I'm a big fan of having a rival group take it out if the players get frustrated. Have the rival group rub the PCs nose in it. "Oh yea, it was really easy. We just lured it to this pass, dropped a net on it and killed it." And the townsfolk should start snubbing your PCs. Also arrowhawk poop. Nothing like insult to injury. If I wanted to get the party to change tactics, I guess I would have the rider show up with the arrowhawk and specifically target the archer. Hound him and wear him down. Make it obvious that the rider feels the archer is the only threat. And then ... go for the TPK? If they have no answer to a flying monster then pick them off one at a time. And then go after the nearby town. Some of the townsfolk survive and flee into the mountains. Word spreads of the PCs incompetence and soon they are persona non grata in the region. However, if they are trying to come up with a plan and they keep going around in circles it is your job as the DM to step in and offer advice. When the players are saying things like "That's a horrible plan. But it's the only plan we have!" it is a clear sign that you need to step in. Even something like "Hey guys, make a wisdom check. Okay, you remember that the creature was really concerned about the archer last time. And you know that only his arrows were able to hurt it consistently. The town has a bowyer and there is a caravan that recently came into town that you haven't checked out yet." Maybe that caravan has a potion of fly, a useful scroll or a handful (1d20?) of magic arrows. Or you can use that wisdom check to remind the paladin that he can cast magic weapon. It may come off a bit heavy handed but I'd rather have a DM say "hey, you have this option!" than have him laughing at me for not grasping something that should be obvious. Really, I think this comes down experience. My group has been playing for a while and everyone carries their preferred weapon, a ranged weapon and at least a dagger. Because when you get swallowed by the big monster you better have an answer to "How do you escape?". I'm not saying that you need to have a golf bag full of weapons but you don't want to be "That guy". [/QUOTE]
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