Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="Ariosto" data-source="post: 5300633" data-attributes="member: 80487">Does &quot;searching the hidden altar&quot; give a Perception check for finding something behind a tapestry at the opposite end of the chapel from the hidden altar? Or does that require &quot;Magic Language&quot;?A chance of accidentally noticing something is fine. However, I do not see the appeal of making PLAN A reliance on random accidents. For damned sure, I don't want the DM's assumptions and dice rolls to dictate that I stick my head in the Green Devil's Mouth!It's up to you what you choose to consider &quot;undue&quot;. If you give the benefit of a maneuver to flank a particular foe and employment of a particular power to someone who just says &quot;I attack&quot;, then that's your prerogative in your game.4e has copious amounts of Magic Language. It just happens to be (a) dull and (b) thoroughly subject to DM interpretation. What is the DC? That's up to the DM. What is the result? That's up to the DM. What in the world does &quot;searching the hidden altar&quot; mean? That's up to the DM.That's where the investment in building up a mythology about the &quot;bad old days&quot; has got your particular game culture. You make the DM the biggest bogey man of all, but see who now calls all the shots. It is only player inputs that you have cut out of the loop! Silly me, I thought this was supposed to be a game for us players to play.This is, nonetheless, a player initiative. It is not (AFAIK) written into the 4e rules. The 4e rules just happen to be rather in sympathy, and WotC's rules sets have from the start included a &quot;build&quot; sub-game with its own investments and interests.A certain player culture leads the way, and WotC follows (while trying also to please some other player cultures).Keep going down that road, and the only acceptable game will be one that comes locked and sealed from the factory. We have had those for some time: computer games!</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ariosto, post: 5300633, member: 80487"] Does "searching the hidden altar" give a Perception check for finding something behind a tapestry at the opposite end of the chapel from the hidden altar? Or does that require "Magic Language"? A chance of accidentally noticing something is fine. However, I do not see the appeal of making PLAN A reliance on random accidents. For damned sure, I don't want the DM's assumptions and dice rolls to dictate that I stick my head in the Green Devil's Mouth! It's up to you what you choose to consider "undue". If you give the benefit of a maneuver to flank a particular foe and employment of a particular power to someone who just says "I attack", then that's your prerogative in your game. 4e has copious amounts of Magic Language. It just happens to be (a) [B]dull[/B] and (b) thoroughly subject to DM interpretation. What is the DC? That's up to the DM. What is the result? That's up to the DM. What in the world does "searching the hidden altar" [I]mean[/I]? That's up to the DM. That's where the investment in building up a mythology about the "bad old days" has got your particular game culture. You make the DM the biggest bogey man of all, but see who now calls all the shots. It is only [I]player[/I] inputs that you have cut out of the loop! Silly me, I thought this was supposed to be a game for us players to play. This is, nonetheless, a player initiative. It is not (AFAIK) written into the 4e rules. The 4e rules just happen to be rather in sympathy, and WotC's rules sets have from the start included a "build" sub-game with its own investments and interests. A certain player culture leads the way, and WotC follows (while trying also to please some other player cultures). Keep going down that road, and the only acceptable game will be one that comes locked and sealed from the factory. We have had those for some time: computer games! [/QUOTE]

Verification