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Legal Ready action triggers and order of resolution
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<blockquote data-quote="ThePolarBear" data-source="post: 6910824" data-attributes="member: 6857451"><p>First: If that was the only part of Counterspell that interacted with spells, your reaction would go after the spell was cast and you would have countered nothing. Reactions do not automatically go before or during the action that triggers them, it has to specified, as is for AoO and Counterspell. Using Counterspell as an example is a bad example. Implying you know when someone is doing something does not equate to knowing when something "begins". Another bad comparison. Identifying a spell requires that the spell is already in course of action. The trigger "i bla bla if target begins casting 'this' spell" would be invalid. To know that the spell is 'this', you would already have gone over the beginning, experience or not.</p><p></p><p>And it's your duty to come up with examples that fit your idea, not mine. If you can't, prehaps it's because they would have no legs to stand on.</p><p></p><p>Second: You ask for "order of resolution" and if would be possible to have a readied action to interrupt a trigger. The answer from the PHB is never, since it states that your readied action goes after a trigger. The trigger can never be interrupted as it needs to come to pass. Now, you can be specific about your trigger, and have some sort of control of when your action actually comes to pass. This control usually breaks the intention of the player tho. "I do not want him to cast a spell" Though luck buddy, by the rules you can't, except for making your target unable to cast a spell via conditions or counter the spell via Counterspell. Reading an action does not make you able to do something that you would not be able to do on your turn as part of one of your actions.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The trigger and the readied actions are what you should check for "visibility" in describing what happens. Anyway, all those examples i mentioned i would NOT let pass since i would NOT let them happen, i would ask "what do you want to do" and state clearly that any readied action has to happen after a trigger has come to pass. They still want to shoot the bandit if he opens his mouth? Go ahead, roll immediatly, he has is mouth open to breath. Reaching for the pouch? You are quite confused to when he is about to do it... too much movement It seems like he is already reaching for it... wait... he was scratching. I suppose it was not clear enough in the second part of my previous post.</p><p>I believe in transparency in the game. Things happens, some might not be as they seem, but a good description has to include anything relevant to decision making. Even letting you smell something funny coming from a group of bandits that just came in the grotto would be ok in my games to let my players roll for perception/investigate to understand that there's a caster among them and have more informations about what's about to happen.</p><p></p><p>Hiding the readied action, the trigger and what not spirals down to overcomplication real fast, and that's something i do not want in my games, both as a DM or as a Player. You can be as realistic or as light-ruled as you want, as long as you have fun and your group is fine with it. A Deception vs insight would be fine, prehaps... but who rolls deception? The one that tries to hide his trigger for the readied action? The one that tries to hide the action they are doing to prevent being fired upon? Both? It's too much rolling and slowing down for me.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="ThePolarBear, post: 6910824, member: 6857451"] First: If that was the only part of Counterspell that interacted with spells, your reaction would go after the spell was cast and you would have countered nothing. Reactions do not automatically go before or during the action that triggers them, it has to specified, as is for AoO and Counterspell. Using Counterspell as an example is a bad example. Implying you know when someone is doing something does not equate to knowing when something "begins". Another bad comparison. Identifying a spell requires that the spell is already in course of action. The trigger "i bla bla if target begins casting 'this' spell" would be invalid. To know that the spell is 'this', you would already have gone over the beginning, experience or not. And it's your duty to come up with examples that fit your idea, not mine. If you can't, prehaps it's because they would have no legs to stand on. Second: You ask for "order of resolution" and if would be possible to have a readied action to interrupt a trigger. The answer from the PHB is never, since it states that your readied action goes after a trigger. The trigger can never be interrupted as it needs to come to pass. Now, you can be specific about your trigger, and have some sort of control of when your action actually comes to pass. This control usually breaks the intention of the player tho. "I do not want him to cast a spell" Though luck buddy, by the rules you can't, except for making your target unable to cast a spell via conditions or counter the spell via Counterspell. Reading an action does not make you able to do something that you would not be able to do on your turn as part of one of your actions. The trigger and the readied actions are what you should check for "visibility" in describing what happens. Anyway, all those examples i mentioned i would NOT let pass since i would NOT let them happen, i would ask "what do you want to do" and state clearly that any readied action has to happen after a trigger has come to pass. They still want to shoot the bandit if he opens his mouth? Go ahead, roll immediatly, he has is mouth open to breath. Reaching for the pouch? You are quite confused to when he is about to do it... too much movement It seems like he is already reaching for it... wait... he was scratching. I suppose it was not clear enough in the second part of my previous post. I believe in transparency in the game. Things happens, some might not be as they seem, but a good description has to include anything relevant to decision making. Even letting you smell something funny coming from a group of bandits that just came in the grotto would be ok in my games to let my players roll for perception/investigate to understand that there's a caster among them and have more informations about what's about to happen. Hiding the readied action, the trigger and what not spirals down to overcomplication real fast, and that's something i do not want in my games, both as a DM or as a Player. You can be as realistic or as light-ruled as you want, as long as you have fun and your group is fine with it. A Deception vs insight would be fine, prehaps... but who rolls deception? The one that tries to hide his trigger for the readied action? The one that tries to hide the action they are doing to prevent being fired upon? Both? It's too much rolling and slowing down for me. [/QUOTE]
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