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Legend Lore says 'story not rules' (3/4)
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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 6095526" data-attributes="member: 82106"><p>Well, I certainly agree with the first part, the notion that "4e options don't matter" or that they don't evoke character concepts seems ridiculous to me. As the game has been expanded with more options the expressiveness of them all has grown a lot, but you could make a LOT of MEANINGFULLY different characters in 4e on day one. When your GW fighter waded into battle with his 2 hander and exercised his role by doing lethal counter attacks, while the sword and board fighter did it by attracting tons of hits, pushing the enemy around, and blocking attacks on his allies that was MEANINGFUL options at work. </p><p></p><p>I don't think DDN lacks meaningful options at some level. Obviously picking a class is quite meaningful, and the other major options matter, but at the same time I can see what you mean. Still, I think where 4e was thin was in terms of packaging. Later on they added things like Themes, and there was a sort of vague notion of a "build" from the start, but I DO think the game needed an easy handle you could use that would make it trivial to create the most basic concepts like "dwarvish greataxe fighter" or something without needing to figure out you needed to be a weapon talent 2 handed fighter with the "add wis to CC attacks" feat and these 5 powers. As the number of options grew in 4e the lack of that was felt more. Themes COULD have provided that if they'd been in the core design, but when they did come along they just made things worse in practice. All 4e's options are (mostly) quite effective for what they were intended to do, but packaging was an issue.</p><p></p><p>Obviously DDN has that issue in hand, which is nice. My issues with it are different. It has more than color, but the mechanics are just unnecessarily a mess. I think the analysis of what people's real issues with 4e are were superficial and missed the mark basically.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 6095526, member: 82106"] Well, I certainly agree with the first part, the notion that "4e options don't matter" or that they don't evoke character concepts seems ridiculous to me. As the game has been expanded with more options the expressiveness of them all has grown a lot, but you could make a LOT of MEANINGFULLY different characters in 4e on day one. When your GW fighter waded into battle with his 2 hander and exercised his role by doing lethal counter attacks, while the sword and board fighter did it by attracting tons of hits, pushing the enemy around, and blocking attacks on his allies that was MEANINGFUL options at work. I don't think DDN lacks meaningful options at some level. Obviously picking a class is quite meaningful, and the other major options matter, but at the same time I can see what you mean. Still, I think where 4e was thin was in terms of packaging. Later on they added things like Themes, and there was a sort of vague notion of a "build" from the start, but I DO think the game needed an easy handle you could use that would make it trivial to create the most basic concepts like "dwarvish greataxe fighter" or something without needing to figure out you needed to be a weapon talent 2 handed fighter with the "add wis to CC attacks" feat and these 5 powers. As the number of options grew in 4e the lack of that was felt more. Themes COULD have provided that if they'd been in the core design, but when they did come along they just made things worse in practice. All 4e's options are (mostly) quite effective for what they were intended to do, but packaging was an issue. Obviously DDN has that issue in hand, which is nice. My issues with it are different. It has more than color, but the mechanics are just unnecessarily a mess. I think the analysis of what people's real issues with 4e are were superficial and missed the mark basically. [/QUOTE]
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