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Legends and Lore 11/22/2011 - A Different Way to Slice the Pie
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<blockquote data-quote="tomBitonti" data-source="post: 5736213" data-attributes="member: 13107"><p>Hi,</p><p></p><p>Going back ... a little ... on my point that this is not a design issue. Rather, there is a design issue, but I place it more in the realm of "is this complexity necessary, in the first place".</p><p></p><p>This is mostly from the 3.5E point of view. I have a much limited view of 4E, so have only one comment there, and it is made at a distance.</p><p></p><p>Some of the complexity is self inflicted: See, in particular, grapple, which is <strong>still</strong> not a coherent set of rules. The problem with grapple is not in when to introduce the complexity, but rather, whether to use those particular rules at all.</p><p></p><p>This seems to be problem of 4E, where, by refusing to "give up the center", that is, to provide core explanations of monsters and abilities, and rather to barrage folks with particular instances, the game publishers have unnecessarily and dramatically increased the apparent complexity of the game. (I call this "design by obfuscated center", in parallel with "design by exception", which I detest.)</p><p></p><p>Other complexity arises from a failure to clearly explain the reason for a set of rules: AOO is a consequence, in part of circular initiative. High natural armor is there why, because the creature really has hide that is the equivalent of double layered full plate (in addition to its DR), or, is the natural armor there to counterbalance the players hit bonuses at the target level?</p><p></p><p>Some complexity arises because of strange special cases. Why is summon a full round activity? Having an action persist between rounds rather violates circular initiative. As a special case, it doesn't fit.</p><p></p><p>Or, of having non-uniform special cases: It seems that the many special attack actions: Power attack; Trip; Disarm; Cleave; Bull Rush; could be put under a single mechanic, and could use the same style of feat: Anyone can try them, they all use a standard action, and all have a feat to take away some of the penalties to untrained use.</p><p></p><p>There is complexity because of orthogonal rules systems covering the same area: For example, natural attacks use different rules than character iterative attacks. Why do it this way? How do you tell when to use natural attacks, and when to use iterative attacks?</p><p></p><p>TomB</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="tomBitonti, post: 5736213, member: 13107"] Hi, Going back ... a little ... on my point that this is not a design issue. Rather, there is a design issue, but I place it more in the realm of "is this complexity necessary, in the first place". This is mostly from the 3.5E point of view. I have a much limited view of 4E, so have only one comment there, and it is made at a distance. Some of the complexity is self inflicted: See, in particular, grapple, which is [b]still[/b] not a coherent set of rules. The problem with grapple is not in when to introduce the complexity, but rather, whether to use those particular rules at all. This seems to be problem of 4E, where, by refusing to "give up the center", that is, to provide core explanations of monsters and abilities, and rather to barrage folks with particular instances, the game publishers have unnecessarily and dramatically increased the apparent complexity of the game. (I call this "design by obfuscated center", in parallel with "design by exception", which I detest.) Other complexity arises from a failure to clearly explain the reason for a set of rules: AOO is a consequence, in part of circular initiative. High natural armor is there why, because the creature really has hide that is the equivalent of double layered full plate (in addition to its DR), or, is the natural armor there to counterbalance the players hit bonuses at the target level? Some complexity arises because of strange special cases. Why is summon a full round activity? Having an action persist between rounds rather violates circular initiative. As a special case, it doesn't fit. Or, of having non-uniform special cases: It seems that the many special attack actions: Power attack; Trip; Disarm; Cleave; Bull Rush; could be put under a single mechanic, and could use the same style of feat: Anyone can try them, they all use a standard action, and all have a feat to take away some of the penalties to untrained use. There is complexity because of orthogonal rules systems covering the same area: For example, natural attacks use different rules than character iterative attacks. Why do it this way? How do you tell when to use natural attacks, and when to use iterative attacks? TomB [/QUOTE]
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