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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Legends and Lore: A Different Way to Slice the Pie
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<blockquote data-quote="Doctor Proctor" data-source="post: 5736945" data-attributes="member: 78547"><p>Several previous Legends and Lore columns had generated threads in the 4e Discussion forum, and since I didn't see one active yet, I decided to open one up to discuss it. I never thought to check the General RPG to see if someone had set one up though. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>Yep, it's very easy to just bookmark that list of conditions in either the PHB or the new Rules Compendium. Any time there's a condition question ("Does Restrained make you grant CA?", "Does Immobilize mean I can't teleport?", etc...) I just flip to the condition table and look it up. Easy peasy. Yes, if it were in the power itself it would be faster, but there would be soooooooooo much more text, and errata would take forever to come out. Think of how long it took them to fix teleports and forced movement cheese? It took so long because they had to implement the fixes system wide in multiple powers from multiple books... That's what it would be like if they had to update rules that were included on each power card.</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>This I kind of agree on... For the feats, yes, it can be a bit intimidating to see the whole Heroic tier that's available when you're creating a character. A nice "cheat sheet" that went more in-depth on sample builds would be good. The samples in the PHB's and others are just too one-dimensional, and not always practical. The feat choice will almost invariably be something that's a class feat, often with a suggestion of Action Surge as the additional feat for a Human (at least in the PHB anyway...). Something updated and with multiple options might be good. </p><p> </p><p>Or, as you said, simply a more limited list for the first few levels. Perhaps at level 4 you get access to the entire Heroic Tier list of feats, but until then you get a more limited subset that includes Expertise, Armor and Weapon Proficiencies, basic Class and Racial feats, and then a few other simple ones.</p><p> </p><p>As for the power thing though, that's already in the system to an extent. Many of the Essentials classes have a very simplified power progression. The Scout that I made awhile back, for example, only got a choice of his two At-Will Stances. His Encounter power was just Power Strike by default, with more uses being gained as he leveled up. There were no Daily Attack powers, just a Daily Utility at level 2. Several others follow the same basic progression style. These are your "simple" classes that allow for new players to get a grasp of the game without being overwhelmed. </p><p> </p><p>That simplicity was achieved solely through the power selection and usage mechanic though, rather than removing rules from the game. I think that's the better long term solution because a player that rolled up a Scout and is ready to pick a more "advanced" class still knows all of the necessary rules of the game, he just has more powers to pick from. </p><p> </p><p>As an aside, that's why the Psionic classes such as the Ardent can be a lot of fun. They're like <em>really</em> advanced classes, because they end up with so many more options due the nature of the augments. They have a lot more versatility in play, but you really have to be on the lookout for situations that allow you to use your powers to their fullest.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Doctor Proctor, post: 5736945, member: 78547"] Several previous Legends and Lore columns had generated threads in the 4e Discussion forum, and since I didn't see one active yet, I decided to open one up to discuss it. I never thought to check the General RPG to see if someone had set one up though. :) Yep, it's very easy to just bookmark that list of conditions in either the PHB or the new Rules Compendium. Any time there's a condition question ("Does Restrained make you grant CA?", "Does Immobilize mean I can't teleport?", etc...) I just flip to the condition table and look it up. Easy peasy. Yes, if it were in the power itself it would be faster, but there would be soooooooooo much more text, and errata would take forever to come out. Think of how long it took them to fix teleports and forced movement cheese? It took so long because they had to implement the fixes system wide in multiple powers from multiple books... That's what it would be like if they had to update rules that were included on each power card. This I kind of agree on... For the feats, yes, it can be a bit intimidating to see the whole Heroic tier that's available when you're creating a character. A nice "cheat sheet" that went more in-depth on sample builds would be good. The samples in the PHB's and others are just too one-dimensional, and not always practical. The feat choice will almost invariably be something that's a class feat, often with a suggestion of Action Surge as the additional feat for a Human (at least in the PHB anyway...). Something updated and with multiple options might be good. Or, as you said, simply a more limited list for the first few levels. Perhaps at level 4 you get access to the entire Heroic Tier list of feats, but until then you get a more limited subset that includes Expertise, Armor and Weapon Proficiencies, basic Class and Racial feats, and then a few other simple ones. As for the power thing though, that's already in the system to an extent. Many of the Essentials classes have a very simplified power progression. The Scout that I made awhile back, for example, only got a choice of his two At-Will Stances. His Encounter power was just Power Strike by default, with more uses being gained as he leveled up. There were no Daily Attack powers, just a Daily Utility at level 2. Several others follow the same basic progression style. These are your "simple" classes that allow for new players to get a grasp of the game without being overwhelmed. That simplicity was achieved solely through the power selection and usage mechanic though, rather than removing rules from the game. I think that's the better long term solution because a player that rolled up a Scout and is ready to pick a more "advanced" class still knows all of the necessary rules of the game, he just has more powers to pick from. As an aside, that's why the Psionic classes such as the Ardent can be a lot of fun. They're like [I]really[/I] advanced classes, because they end up with so many more options due the nature of the augments. They have a lot more versatility in play, but you really have to be on the lookout for situations that allow you to use your powers to their fullest. [/QUOTE]
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