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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 5520609" data-attributes="member: 996">It's one of those weird 4e-hater things that was going early on.  Wizards were dumped on pretty hard because they didn't measure up to the 3e wizard. It didn't take the haters too long to realize that there wasn't much sympathy for wanting the overpowered wizard back, so the derision shifted gears.'Not much of a controller.'  Was a funny one, I though, since the description of the conroller role was little more than a vague description of the wizard's powers.  I think the real problem is that 'control' already had meanings in WoW and M:tG, and that the /monster/ controller role got conflated with the PC role.  Somehow there came to be this vague consensus that you weren't doing control if you weren't inflicting conditions or forcing movement or something like that.  Interdicting a large swath of the battlefield with an AE counted for nothing.  Minions weren't fully apreciated either, initially, and that also led to under-estimating the controller role.WotC, for all people complain about it, /does/ listen to what their fans have to say, even when the fans happen to be mistaken.  So, 'controllers' have been re-defined to be more like what people got the impression (between getting them mixed up with other uses of the word, and taking hardcore 3.5/PF fan belly-aching seriously) they should be.  Kinda like how some genius found the 'math error' so we're stuck with Expertise feat taxes.</blockquote>

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