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Message: <blockquote data-quote="delericho" data-source="post: 5642074" data-attributes="member: 22424">This is not necessarily true. A 5e that is simply a clone of 3e would certainly fail, yes. But it should be possible to build something new that attracts fans of 3e, fans of 4e, and new fans, in numbers. With the emphasis very much on the "should" of course - it's certainly not an easy task.No, I'm merely acknowledging reality. As yet, WotC have not announced 5e. Mearls' articles may not be a precursor to 5e (although they definitely feel like it).But if WotC announce 5e so soon, then that is a clear sign that 4e has failed.Odd. I'm sure I've been doing it for years.PCs, monsters, terrain. An encounter is an encounter, both in terms of risk and their place in the 'plot'. The mechanic representation may differ, but the concept is the same.By "set up", I meant "lay out the dungeon tiles, set up the monsters, roll and record initiative". Prep time is something different, and I'll agree 4e has the edge (by quite some way).You know, I'm pretty sure I ran a 3e session yesterday featuring multiple combats, and without minis. Likewise, I'm also sure that when I tried to run 4e there were so many minor movements and forced movements that it was impossible for me to run it without the minis.I guess my memory must be faulty. Gosh, that's worrying.(Or, just perhaps: you're flat wrong.)The adventures I compared were "Kobold Hall" and "The Burning Plague", the first ones I ran in 4e and 3e, respectively. Both published adventures, both for 1st level PCs, both featuring combats against kobolds armed with missile and melee weapons. In neither case was it a 'boss' encounter.I'm not being dishonest; you're being wrong.The combat grind in 4e is well known. It makes it impossible for me to tell the stories I want to tell when using that system (because combat takes so long it squeezes everything else out - and I can't tell stories if I can only progress through 3-4 scenes every two weeks).Here's the other thing: you say I haven't made any "legitimate arguments about the time 4e combat takes". You, on the other hand, haven't made any legitimate arguments about how bad any aspect of 3e/Pathfinder is. You just keep labelling it "trash" and "garbage", and expect us to simply accept your assertions. Any time you actually want to contribute something substantive, feel free.</blockquote>

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