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<blockquote data-quote="Crazy Jerome" data-source="post: 5643518" data-attributes="member: 54877">I think silos are also useful in preventing totally gimped characters for beginners.&nbsp; You don't always get that with diminishing returns.&nbsp; Also, there is a certain amount of diminishing returns inherent in silos if you have picks from a diminishing list and stacking restrictions too.&nbsp; I like my diminishing returns a bit more elegant than something like GURPS 3E exponentially increasing skill costs, because it plays all kinds of monkey business with scaling over different power levels (i.e. once a guy can afford his &quot;epic&quot; stuff in his main gig, he can afford &quot;almost epic&quot; in everything else) and complicates calculating what a character can get.&nbsp;But yeah, silos are not the answer by themselves.&nbsp; A good mix of silo/non-silo, careful selection of lists, stack restrictions, diminishing returns, etc. are the way to go.&nbsp;And really, I'll just throw out the idea that perhaps almost all of the &quot;design issues&quot; in versions of D&amp;D--both when designing and when communicating/understanding the intended design--have been ultimately failures to put things in the correct conceptual box.&nbsp; Not infrequently, this has been aided by bad labeling or fluff that didn't match the intended use or purpose.&nbsp;1E and earlier gets somewhat off a pass, because you can tell that a lot of it was made up as they went, and they were flying wild.&nbsp; If &quot;cure light wounds&quot; was really &quot;restore luck/morale/fatigue/health&quot;--well, they knew what they meant, and it was one of those things you had to come to terms with.&nbsp; But by now, I'd think the label and fluff for everything needs to be on the table for discussion.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Crazy Jerome, post: 5643518, member: 54877"] I think silos are also useful in preventing totally gimped characters for beginners. You don't always get that with diminishing returns. Also, there is a certain amount of diminishing returns inherent in silos if you have picks from a diminishing list and stacking restrictions too. I like my diminishing returns a bit more elegant than something like GURPS 3E exponentially increasing skill costs, because it plays all kinds of monkey business with scaling over different power levels (i.e. once a guy can afford his "epic" stuff in his main gig, he can afford "almost epic" in everything else) and complicates calculating what a character can get. But yeah, silos are not the answer by themselves. A good mix of silo/non-silo, careful selection of lists, stack restrictions, diminishing returns, etc. are the way to go. And really, I'll just throw out the idea that perhaps almost all of the "design issues" in versions of D&D--both when designing and when communicating/understanding the intended design--have been ultimately failures to put things in the correct conceptual box. Not infrequently, this has been aided by bad labeling or fluff that didn't match the intended use or purpose. 1E and earlier gets somewhat off a pass, because you can tell that a lot of it was made up as they went, and they were flying wild. If "cure light wounds" was really "restore luck/morale/fatigue/health"--well, they knew what they meant, and it was one of those things you had to come to terms with. But by now, I'd think the label and fluff for everything needs to be on the table for discussion. [/QUOTE]

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