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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Nemesis Destiny" data-source="post: 5757469" data-attributes="member: 98255">Short answer? Wherever (s)he wants it to be. See your sig. Fudging dice, "forgetting" to roll. In AD&D terms all rules were just guidelines and this is spelled out over and over in all the material that I read on it.Besides, if it was a homebrew (as things often were), as a DM, you'd be constantly called upon to make judgments, because there is no way you could think of every possible angle a player might take with their powers/abilities/spells/items. That will require fiat.I know. I've been there. I am very familiar with AD&D (mostly 2e, since that is when I began DMing).That explains it then. My stuff older than 2e is put away in a box. It's interesting in that in the 2e version, the word 'must' was changed. I wonder why...?It's still up to the DM to decide to actually roll those dice and/or make those calls. They were just guidelines after all. And when dealing with a lot of situations, things aren't always spelled out. There is and was always plenty of room for fiat.I know full well that effects were spelled out in detail in AD&D, and 3.x, but I guess rather than give guidelines, 4e expects groups/DMs to apply common sense, or whatever level of "realism" they're comfortable with. It's not a stretch to know that fire burns, ice freezes, wind can blow out torches, and the like.</blockquote>