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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Imaro" data-source="post: 5757818" data-attributes="member: 48965">Yep, totally agree...  Never argued the DM couldn't fiat it...  Good for those people... I'm not one of them.  This is one of the things that makes discussing 4e so hard, the multiple rules sources. Let's examine 107... Targeting Objects... "At the DM's discretion, a power that targets one or more creatures can target one or more objects, as long as the number of targets does not exceed the number specified by the power. For example, a player might want her wizard to attack a door with a thunder power that normally targets a single creature. If the DM says yes to her, she can use the spell against the door but can't use it against the door and another creature, because doing so would exceed the number of targets specified in the power. See Attacking Objects page 176, for objects' defenses, hit points and so forth. " Hmm, I can almost see your interpretation if this was the only paragraph about it in the RC and the one example it provides still didn't support a player pro-actively wanting to affect objects and then asking for DM ruling as opposed to a DM deciding arbitrarily that it will effect an object (is there an example of this anywhere in the actual rulebooks?)... but not quite.  The other paragraphs I have provided plus the example here all point to it being a player driven choice... not a DM one.    I sure did and I don't agree with your interpretation. Everything in the rules points to it being a player's choice to try and affect objects not a DM arbitrarily deciding to. If anything I'm more apt to agree with TheFindus that the rules are unclear but infer strongly it is a player who has to proactively want to affect an object with his powers.</blockquote>

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