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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Tovec" data-source="post: 5757820" data-attributes="member: 95493">Yes, Hercules did amazing things, because he was a (demi)god. 1. We have addressed the bard and his psychic mocking of a dimly-aware undead. And we've discussed their minds.2. When did the fighter (with his martial power source) pick up said wild magical or psionic talent? Once again, fluff unsupported by the rules and pulled out of nowhere in order to justify a power. Instead, it would be nice if he had the power BECAUSE he has a psionic talent, not he has a random psionic talent because he has the power.3. If the laws of the universe make no sense, then I think they certainly need to change. When the rules deal primarily with the PCs, they aren't exceptions to the normal laws - they ARE the normal laws. We aren't talking about powers obtained by a random NPC, we're talking about ones used by the party warlord, bard and fighter.By narrative approach you mean 'make up whatever you want when it doesn't make sense'?Right, those rules didn't exist. But for years in between what you are talking about and 4e, the rules DID, and they worked fine. I don't understand why progress like that needed to be thrown out in favour of "maybe or maybe not" the papers get ignited.Yes, but somehow it is good to get rid of through and effort that people have put into a rules set? The goodness comes from the fact you now have to make it up as you go, hurrah!I'd argue you don't HAVE TO narrate that too. In 3e for example, rules on swimming were fairly clear. Now, however you have to narrate what happens and invent a rule, or take something you feel is close and reflavour, to deal with the issue. I guess 4e does excel in making people step away from the familiar and force them to narrate, if only so that the DM can guess at a rule to cover it.You were never forced to use material in previous editions, when the rules were presented. A rules-lawyer would certainly try and bring up a rule one way or another but rules-lawyers can do that in 4e too by saying the power doesn't state anything but creatures so that isn't anything new.Don't forget, when you make the argument that it can target non-creatures that this is a ruleset given to us by the same people who produce Magic (MtG) and that when they stated "creatures" I'm sure they meant just that. They are very clear in their other game title of what an effect targets but in DnD they apparently miss out and have to include it in a section for DM fiat if they happen to think about it or want a non-standard result.</blockquote>

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