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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Argyle King" data-source="post: 5757883" data-attributes="member: 58416">A fair assessment, but...While it may not have been demon lords, my experience has been the PCs marauding over the enemy from about level 12 onward.  In other threads I have said there were even times in Heroic Tier when it happens, but I've also seen Heroic Tier go the complete other way, so I'll chalk that up to skill of play.Also, what I said was a poor way of getting at a related point.  Upthread somewhere I used the example of PCs being able to easily blow through a door with at-wills while the BBEG and his uber-minions struggle to scratch it.  To me, there's a disconnect between how the PCs interact with the world versus how everything else interacts with the world.  I'm perfectly fine with different rules for building PCs and build monsters, but I'd prefer there to be some consistency to how those two branches of the rules interact with the 'physics engine' (so to speak) which the 4E world is built upon.An item which showcases this would be Dimensional Shackles.  A PC would have some chance of getting out of them.  It's been my experience that placing a pair on even the most powerful of enemies tends to mean the fight is over.  The guy who usually DMs for the Saturday D&D group I game with has banned them from his game for that reason.  I suppose part of my point is that there seem to be two different conflicting realities within the game.  One or the other existing would be fine. (Though, due to my preferences, I'd honestly prefer something more toned down than the default PC level of 4th.)  Having both exist side beside -at times- creates situations which my brain finds strange.  What I would prefer to see is for the 'physics engine' of the game world to be used as one place where both realities conform to the same rules and form a connecting bridge of consistency between the two branches of the rules.</blockquote>

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