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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Imaro" data-source="post: 5759360" data-attributes="member: 48965">And I would say this is where we have to agree to disagree. IMO, players stay more engaged, when the fiction of their actions actually has an effect in the game... otherwise what's the point? If the description has no effect, then all you really need is to be able to recite the formula on the power card.   Explain to me how the treatment of colour/flavor in 4e does this, as opposed to the players around the table (which of course they can do with any roleplaying game if they want to and try hard enough)? similarly how does ever-malleable flavor allow a player to visualise the events that motivate and influence his or her character? In both instances the game isn't doing anything to facilitate this, the players are.</blockquote>