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Message: <blockquote data-quote="D'karr" data-source="post: 5760931" data-attributes="member: 336">I love the work that Baker has done over the years, he is actually one of my favorite designers, and I think that the Dark Sun Campaign Setting is by far the most inspired campaign setting for feel and mechanical value that is out there for 4e.  Even then, I found his example for simulation (hitting someone over the head with a lantern) to be off-track.  It seems that he was trying to make the point that 4e varies from the others because it is a game, not a simulation, and that the game tries very hard to not let you make up actions that aren't what the game designer wants you to do.The example seems ridiculous, specially because it flies in the face of the pretty robust framework that 4e has put in place exactly to handle this type of "simulation"; if you even want to call it that.  Page 42 of the DMG covers this in such easily digestible detail that I would not think twice about where to go to handle this.Player: I swing the lantern wildly, I'm trying to make it bust on the "dude's" head.DM: Okay, roll a Dex Check vs. Reflex.Player: I rolled a 19 total.DM: The lantern lands squarely on the "dude's" head exploding in flames. Roll damage, let's make that 3d6+3. Player: That's 13 points of damage, can he catch on fire?DM: That was a pretty solid hit, there's a chance.  Make another Dex Check vs. Reflex.Player: I rolled a nat 20DM: Okay, he's on fire and will take ongoing fire damage save ends.I found none of that hard to do at all.  There were two basic concepts to handling the situation "Say, yes" and DMG pg 42 "Actions the Rules Don't Cover".  However, that is not the beauty of the system.  The real beauty is that this particular system can be used for almost every abstraction/simulation.1. I want to jump over the railing an land on the trolls head (pg 42)2. I want to upturn the brazier, and spread the coals on the guards (pg 42)3. I want to sweet-talk the servant girl, and have her help me get into the manor house (pg 42)4. I want to spend some time casing this place so I can determine the guard schedule (pg 42)5. The fire is almost at my feet.  I want to make a jump to the railing on the top balcony, by using the sides of those columns as support (jackie chan style) (pg 42)6. With all my momentum, I want to do a double-kick on this guy to push him over the railing (pg 42) Now if I tried all those things in 1e, most of the stuff would be all over the DMG or I'd have to make it up.  If it was in 3e the first one might be a grapple of some kind, the second one might be a skill check, the third one would be a skill check, the fourth a skill check, the fifth a skill check, and the 6th would be some combination of attack with an overrun and possibly an acrobatics check.Don't get me wrong, I'm sure all the game systems can handle these things. However I seriously doubt that 4e actually makes you work really hard to accomplish what you want.  The hard one is definitely not 4e.  Just by not having to resolve the first one as a grapple, 4e already moved this into the easy to handle category.</blockquote>

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