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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Crazy Jerome" data-source="post: 5767001" data-attributes="member: 54877">Well, this specifically is not a huge problem for me either way. Long before 3E was launched, I was consciously using vertical space and other location elements to create more "action movie" scenes in my gaming. But this was hardly limited to pushing people off of ledges or out of windows. We were more interested in things such as rolling the barrels of lamp oil down the ramp, off the ledge, and tossing torches after them. (Or with Arcana Evolved, conjured fire monkeys. Man, I loved that little guy!) So "bull rush"--however conceived, is not that critical in and of itself. But on the math and who can do what, I'd say that you are not taking page 42 into account. Nor is this limited to my preferences for how action resolution is conceived or approached. In Fantasy Hero, it is a mix of simulation techniques, with a few other things thrown in, but pushing someone off a ledge is a combo or reasonable abilities that everyone has, which can be enhanced by a specialist. It got used well by the specialists and some by everyone else. In 4E, the same results held, though the means are signficantly different--"stunts" are required for just anyone to do it in spectacular fashion. In 3E, in contrast, the problem is that the non-specialist who is remotely aware of the results has no interest in doing this whatsoever, while the specialist is too interested in doing it all the time (aka the tripping expert).  If you approach D&D from the mindset of, "the fighter can stop people getting past me to smack the wizard because it says in the description of my class that I can do that"--such that you can ignore the plain fact of the mechanics not in any way really supporting that--then "bull rush" will work for you more or less in any system, as long as you name it right and give the people that ability that you think should have it. OTOH, if you want "action hero" results, and are willing to sacrifice a bit of the tyranny between direct cause and effect, then the first approach will not satisfy you. In that case, the game doesn't do what it says it does on the tin.</blockquote>

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