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<blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 5731743" data-attributes="member: 2067"><p>I see one great reason why such a task should be solvable: <em>to end the campaign</em>. </p><p></p><p>If you go into a Dark Sun game knowing there's a finite limit on the time you spend in there, I see no problem at all with having the players accomplish "the impossible" by the time the campaign ends. They should be able and allowed to wreck the setting. </p><p></p><p>I don't see how, if it is something that the characters can accomplish, it's not something that is part of the character's abilities. There might be no <em>Restore Athas</em> spell, but if some epic-level endgame artifact enables the PC's to wish upon Rikus's Spear that all of Athas is returned to greenery, it's still part of the character's abilities. It might not be a trustworthy and reliable and repeatable character ability -- a one-off thing -- but it's certainly not <em>player</em> ability that restores Athas. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This is the basic Slay A Monster plotline from any horror or action movie, and it's directly amenable to character abilities: researching the artifact (discovery), journeying to the land where it lies (exploration), prying it from the jaws of monsters (combat), and finally convincing its guardian to hand it to you (interaction), so that you can use it to kill the monster (e.g.: use it as a character ability). </p><p></p><p>I don't understand how that's separate from character ability. It's not the <em>players</em> who overcome the challenges before them to gain the item and slay the beast, it's the characters. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Sure, but the players are thinking about how to use their characters' abilities. If you see a fireproof dragon in front of you, you might use your character's ice abilities to kill it. If you see an impenetrable force field in front of you, you might use your character's exploration abilities to jump over it, burrow under it, or chisel through the walls around it, or their discovery abilities to analyze its magic and dispel it, or their social abilities to contact the wizard who made it and get him to remove it. The solution still lies within character abilities. Players are choosing how to apply those abilities, but the test isn't about the player's abilities any more than combat is a test of my buddy Frank's ability to accurately hit things with a sword.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="I'm A Banana, post: 5731743, member: 2067"] I see one great reason why such a task should be solvable: [I]to end the campaign[/I]. If you go into a Dark Sun game knowing there's a finite limit on the time you spend in there, I see no problem at all with having the players accomplish "the impossible" by the time the campaign ends. They should be able and allowed to wreck the setting. I don't see how, if it is something that the characters can accomplish, it's not something that is part of the character's abilities. There might be no [I]Restore Athas[/I] spell, but if some epic-level endgame artifact enables the PC's to wish upon Rikus's Spear that all of Athas is returned to greenery, it's still part of the character's abilities. It might not be a trustworthy and reliable and repeatable character ability -- a one-off thing -- but it's certainly not [I]player[/I] ability that restores Athas. This is the basic Slay A Monster plotline from any horror or action movie, and it's directly amenable to character abilities: researching the artifact (discovery), journeying to the land where it lies (exploration), prying it from the jaws of monsters (combat), and finally convincing its guardian to hand it to you (interaction), so that you can use it to kill the monster (e.g.: use it as a character ability). I don't understand how that's separate from character ability. It's not the [I]players[/I] who overcome the challenges before them to gain the item and slay the beast, it's the characters. Sure, but the players are thinking about how to use their characters' abilities. If you see a fireproof dragon in front of you, you might use your character's ice abilities to kill it. If you see an impenetrable force field in front of you, you might use your character's exploration abilities to jump over it, burrow under it, or chisel through the walls around it, or their discovery abilities to analyze its magic and dispel it, or their social abilities to contact the wizard who made it and get him to remove it. The solution still lies within character abilities. Players are choosing how to apply those abilities, but the test isn't about the player's abilities any more than combat is a test of my buddy Frank's ability to accurately hit things with a sword. [/QUOTE]
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