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Message: <blockquote data-quote="thewok" data-source="post: 5733240" data-attributes="member: 60907">I don't think that anyone's saying that every obstacle has to be solved right then and there with stuff from the character sheet.  That's ludicrous.  The expectation, though, is for there to be some way to get past that obstacle at some point, using the character's abilities rather than the player's.I mean, I can set up an encounter that is unwinnable by a five-person party.  And, in fact, I have done this for my current group, though they don't know it yet.  In such a case, the proper course of action is to run away.  That is an option for the character, and any adventurer should be of high enough intelligence to know when a fight is unwinnable, and can then decide whether or not retreat is worth any possible hit to personal honor or public image.In such a case, the obstacle is there.  Maybe it's a level 10 dragon, and the group is only level 2.  Maybe Imix is threatening creation itself, and the group needs to defeat him, and they're level 10.  Retreat is fine.  Some obstacles can't be solved right away, but they can be solved sometime.  And when the group is level 30, they can assault Imix's stronghold in the Elemental Chaos, or they can go back to the dragon at level 10 and kill her to take her stuff.  Or maybe they'll even sweet-talk the dragon at level 2 into doing or giving whatever the group requires of her.But if I set up a poetry contest as an obstacle, I'm not going to allow the 10-charisma, 8-int Fighter any bonuses, even if he's played by John Keats or Maya Angelou.  What I will do, however, is let the 20-charisma, 16-intelligence bard, played by someone who hates poetry gain a bonus (+2 only, though) if he attempts to write something approximating iambic pentameter.  Now, if the poet player wants to help, then he might be able to act as a ghostwriter, but the impact of the poem would come down to the performance of the speaker, which is indicated by a die roll modified by a character skill/ability modifier.Now, if before the game the Fighter's player came to me and said that the Fighter had formal training in literature as part of his Fighter training, then I'd probably allow him to assist the bard with an Aid Another roll for the composition of the piece.You'll note that "Poetry Composition" is not a skill on the character sheet.  But I will use things like Int, Cha and Insight checks to approximate the actions necessary.Maybe the group has no naturally poetic character.  Maybe they need to steal a poet's work (Thievery), and maybe they need to find a magic item that can enthrall an entire crowd (Arcana/Religion/etc.).  Then they can compete in this contest.Or maybe the group will come up with a way to bypass the contest entirely and find some other way of gaining the artifact they need.  Even this alternate way will come about as a result of the characters' abilities and not the players'.</blockquote>

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