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Message: <blockquote data-quote="LurkAway" data-source="post: 5739800" data-attributes="member: 6685059">LostSoul, that was really, really good, thank you. I am sold that a werewolf curse is an interesting element to add to D&D (if done well). Which leaves me to agree with the majority of your post, and moreso with some interesting ideas that hadn't occured to me. I'm still not sold on this part...As I mentioned upthread, you have werewolf stories of a wolf in sheep's clothing, and then you have viking tales of berserkers in wolf's pelts. I think these are 2 incongruous elements put together Frankenstein-like to create the 4E werewolf curse. I think the very essence of werewolf stories is the fear and mystery of a hidden irrational bloodlust lurking inside men in secret until the full moon.That said, I'm not completely inflexible, and I can be sold on a new gripping compelling vision of a werewolf like I have not previously imagined. But...I agree, except that:1) as I think would be done in earlier editions, allowing the player to roleplay the berserk reaction is not taking control away at all, in fact, it's empowering the player to roleplay the werewolf role2) Book of Vile Darkness' solution is not a gripping compelling fiction that gets me to buy into the New Werewolf. On the contrary, the New Werewolf has developed a sort of completely predictable Patellar reflex. For me, that is such a sin to treat a PC like a videogame character, it completely overshadows any good intentions or tactical optionsGetting back to the OP, here's how the New Werewolf might be roleplayed 'out of bounds':1) player says 'screw this rule, can I roleplay out Stage 2 and 3?2) the DM and the game system assumes it might trust the player to roleplay manually/freeform (at least in an advanced/mature game)3) use random die rolls to help the player roleplay the berserkness ("I'm sorry I attacked you Bob, but I failed the Will save")And perhaps this is just or more important...4) if the other players cannot feel safe with the knowledge of the Stage 3 rule, if there isn't a predictable trigger condition, if it cannot be predicted and thus manipulated at the metagame level, then:a) the afflicted PC can act 'out of bounds', thus being genuinely unpredictable and scary and thrillingb) the other players' actions will likely be more in line with what the characters would do under those circumstancesThat playstyle might not be for everyone, but that is the 'out of bounds' playstyle that appeals very much to me (and I think what Monte was referring to when appealing to earlier editions of D&D).EDIT: Just confirming that Stage 2 and 3 refers to the 'knee jerk' reaction, and not Stage 4 which I agree the DM should probably more or less control the PC as an NPC on the full moon behind the scenes.</blockquote>

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