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Message: <blockquote data-quote="steeldragons" data-source="post: 5669919" data-attributes="member: 92511">Most definitely 3 but 2 is good too. I chose three though because I do like there to be a roll in most situations (out of player view) to allow for a sliding scale of DM's discretion as to just how much the character knows and/or is able to discover/discern with their (the character's!) knowledge.Also, this leaves thigns open for the DM in the event that a roll/check is missed, by a little or a lot. Will the character think they know/be given info that is incomplete or just plain wrong/mistaken?The elf thief might notice (with her elvin senses) there is a secret door in this dwarven tomb or might not. But the extent of this elf's experience/knowledge of dwarves is that they have beards and like to live in/build things in mountains. Nothing about their mechanisms or preferred/recognizable ways of hiding, guarding or opening such portals.Her thief training might be able to discern a trap or might not. Might discern the trap is somehow integrated into opening this secret panel or might not. May be able to disarm the trap and/or realize there's a lock (and then may or may not be able to open it). or might not.Anything from a natural 20/100% success would get them by any of these individual obstacles to a natural 1/0% success (and possibly, mistakenly, believe she turned off the trap or figured out how to open the panel) is a possibility that should be available to the DM. So, as opposed to simply leaving it entirely to player description and DM discretion, I think a roll is necessary.But I definitely still want to hear SOMEthing from the player as to what they are doing/going about trying to figure it out.Similarly, the player can have personal knowledge/expertise in various types of things, can describe things beautifully and in detail (or, more than likely, a different player than the one checking) ...and possibly be absolutely correct...but the character can still fail/does not know. So there must be an element of "chance" (the dice roll) present to any of these kinds of "skill/ability check" situations.There's my two coppers on that.Have fun and happy dissociating.--SD</blockquote>

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