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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 5496517" data-attributes="member: 996">I have a vague sense that he has some sort of agenda, though.  His baby, Essentials, accepts some additional systemic complexity in order to deliver 'simpler' choices (like the braindead fighter the last poll rejected), so he's maybe trying get some zietgiest going in support of it...?  Or, maybe he's just musing out loud.  :shrug:Has it really, though?Compare grappling in AD&D, 3.5, and 4e, for instance:AD&D:  You initiate a grapple.  The grapple goes to segmented combat, so each round, you resolve 10 rounds of the grapple. No, I'm not kidding.  You resolve the grapple using percentile dice, not d20 attack rolls.  There's a chart in the DMG for it.  The chart heavily weights strength, size, and being outnumbered, and barely weights level at all, so you can quite easilly be grappled, pinned, and slain by ogres or a small horde of orcs, if they'd only throw away their weapons and 'overbear' and 'grapple' you.  No, I'm really not making this up.  I may not be remembering it all exactly right, but it was that wierd and inconsistent.3.5:  You make a touch attack that provokes an AoO unless you have Improved Grab, followed by a strength check, then move into the targets space.  From then on, you make various attack rolls to harm, pin, or otherwise deal with the enemy, while he makes contested checks to escape.  These checks are modified by your relative sizes.  A series of success on the attacker's part can render the grappled character helpless (pinned).  There are special rules for attacking into the grapple or joining the grapple.  A caster can make a concentration check to cast while grappling.4e:  You attack STR vs FORT.  On a hit, the trarget is 'grabbed' and can't move from his square.  He can escape using Athletics vs FORT or Accrobatics vs REF.  He also escapes if one of you is forced away from the other.</blockquote>

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