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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 5496768" data-attributes="member: 42582">The idea that Essentials is not a complex game I find too ludicrous for words.When I started playing RPGs I first had black box Traveller and then had red box Moldvay D&D. I couldn't make head or tail of Traveller until after I'd played D&D. But with Moldvay Basic - a complete game in 64 pages - I was up and playing in no time. That's a great example of a pretty simple game.Essentials, on the other hand, is 3 to 5 books (at least a players' book plus GM's book or RC plus MV), each of over 300 pages. (Maybe the GM's book is a bit shorter - I don't have it ready-to-hand.) That's something like 1000 pages all up. That's a very complicated game.Now in my view it does offer more depth than Moldvay Basic. But I'm not sure it offer 16 times as much depth. Unless you're someone to whom complexity has an intrinsic appeal - and this is true of me and my gaming group - I'm not sure 4e, Essentials or otherwise, is the game for you!As a Rolemaster partisan, I have to step in and say that its reputation for complexity is somewhat exaggerated. Played without the supplements, it has more complex character build than 3E - but less complicated than 3E + supplements, I would guess - and action resolution of comparable complexity to mid-to-high level 3E.But your broader point still stands. For an example of a rather simple yet elegant modern game, I would suggest Robin Laws' HeroQuest second edition.Of course, one feature of HeroQuest is that it doesn't have the tactical aspect that 3E OR 4E D&D has. My feeling is that it's hard to introduce tactical play while keeping complexity out.Well, I don't think we need them. On the other hand, WotC certainly wants us to buy them.When I look at 4e, one thing that I see is a game a little like HeroQuest - players are expected to build PCs that will help construct and then engage the thematic content of the fiction - but that unlike HQ's freeform character creation, WotC has realised it can make money by selling those little thematic elements of a PC build one sourcebook at a time.For paragon paths and epic destinies, I don't think this is a big problem. I'm not sure it's such a big problem for powers either. In all these cases, class plus build plus theme quickly narrow the range of options, and choosing can be fun.But feats are (in my view) a bit of a disaster at the moment. If I was going to try and root out complexity while still leaving the basic architecture of the game intact, I'd start there.</blockquote>

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