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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 5510772" data-attributes="member: 996">The /minimum/ level?  For 3e or 4e that's "roll a d20, add these pre-calculated bonuses."  And, it goes from there.  In 3e you learn to count squares differently on diagonals than rows, what AoOs are and how to avoid them by taking a five-foot-step that isn't exactly an action, but doesn't provoke, unless you keep moving, then it retroactively does, that there are different actions (moves and double-moves and 5'steps and full round actions, including full attacks, that are compatible with a 5' step, and 'special' full round actions, and partial actions and free actions and move-quivalent actions, and swift actions, and readied actions and opportuniy actions), how to charge - in a perfectly straight line, with no rough terrain or allies in the way, how to roll to hit, roll saving throws, roll skill chekcs, how to resolve contested rolls for grappling, disarming, or sundering, since they're different from d20+bonuses vs target numbers...  and that's just getting started for the 'easy' classes that don't have to deal with spells, once spells come into it, there's how to read all the entries at the top of the spell and what they mean, concentration, and so forth, you have daily resources to manage, and long spell descriptions to puzzle through.  In 4e, if your character is already made for you, you have to learn that there are actions you can take on your turn - standard, move, and minor - and actions you can take when it's not - opportunity (1/turn), immediate (1/rnd), and free, and you have to learn to read powers, which each have a specific action, attack type, range, attack, hit, miss & effect lines. And come in at-will, 1/encounter, and 1/day uses. Then you have to be able to read all those hinky little power cards, and manage the expendable ones as resources. You learn to count squares 1 for 1, and that circles are thus squares (that's a toughie).  You get hit, healed, and learn about hps and surges. And that's before you get to dealing with spells... which, actually, work just like any other powers.I'm sure that would get complicated.  One sense in which 4e is front-loaded is that it uses (or used, before Essentials) the same structure for all classes.  So, while it might have been a little easier to 'get' a 1e Fighter or 3e Barbarian than any 4e class, once you got one 4e class, you had the basics down for all of them.  It simply has fewer and less diverse sub-systems than prior eds.  So it's simpler, as a whole, more complex if you're just trying to take the one simplest slice of it.</blockquote>

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