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Message: <blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 6253603" data-attributes="member: 2067">Take 20 to me means that you do it until you get it perfectly -- which is why you can't do it if there's some penalty for failure. You expect to fail over and over again, and if the only cost is your time, you just spend the time necessary to do it perfectly. Take 20 is like rolling a 20, so it is the best that you can ever do.Take 10 to me means that you do an average job. You take your time, avoid dumb mistakes, and perform basically on par for yourself. You do it to avoid failure, when you have the time to just apply what you already know.But that "average job" is going to produce variable results. If you spend the time to do an "average job" on a new piece of artwork, it's going to be MILES ahead of my "average job" doing the same thing. You've got skill and training where I don't. Someone hired to put a deathtrap in a dungeon (or a green slime hiding on moist walls, or a mimic, or a lie told by a master of deceit or an illusion crafted by a standard illusionist, or whatever) is presumably doing something they're trained to do. Their Take 10 produces much better results than someone without the training. And their Take 10 is going to beat those that don't have equal training in detecting their traps. Which just puts it in the camp of, "Normally, the PC's are surprised by traps/lies/mimics/illusions/secret doors/etc. Special character options (like alertness or trap sense or being a gnome or an elf or trained in Perception) might mean that you are not necessarily surprised by these things, and may notice them without special effort."So the guy who is trained in making traps doing an average job tricks anybody who isn't trained in detecting traps, but having some training in detecting traps means that you might not have to do anything special to avoid a trap. That's really binary (there's no real point in ever including a trap in a dungeon that the PC's do detect, so the PC's will only ever fall prey to traps), but add onto that the ability for a PC to use up some resources to be extra-cautious and make a roll, and you've basically got my proposal above.</blockquote>

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