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<blockquote data-quote="delericho" data-source="post: 6530583" data-attributes="member: 22424"><p>I'm going to answer a couple of things in the wrong order, if you don't mind...</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I've only played it a few times, but it definitely seems less complex. I think Monte may have been conscious that it would get much less play than D&D (probably even from fans of Numenera) and so couldn't rely on system mastery to anything like the same extent.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>My issue with Monte's article wasn't about the <em>level</em> of complexity, but rather what I saw as a faulty conclusion.</p><p></p><p>His argument was roughly that a new player would benefit from an easy access point (which I agree with) but that a more advanced player would probably want at least a bit more complexity (which I agree with).</p><p></p><p>But what I saw as the faulty conclusion was that because that advanced player would have been playing longer, and therefore would have reached a higher level, <em>complexity should rise with level</em>.</p><p></p><p>My issue with this was two-fold:</p><p></p><p>Firstly, it only works if you play only one campaign, ever. Otherwise, the advanced player may find himself again playing a 1st level character that is overly simple for his taste.</p><p></p><p>Secondly, pretty much everyone will have a maximum desired level of complexity (that won't be the same for everyone). If complexity rises with level, then, a person will therefore reach a point where his 'reward' for continuing play is that his character becomes increasingly less fun beyond a certain point. (Indeed, that was very much the case with 3e beyond level 13 or so.)</p><p></p><p>So my view was that it would be better instead if the game had a simple (some might say Basic) version and then various optional modules and rules that could be added on to increase complexity for those who want it. Another reason to be glad of the way 5e worked out. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>But I'm not sure that's necessarily a difference in design philosophy between Monte and Mearls. As indicated, Numenera indicates that Monte can do simple well enough; while I'd say "Iron Heroes" shows Mearls can do complex. I think it was instead just something that came out in the wash.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="delericho, post: 6530583, member: 22424"] I'm going to answer a couple of things in the wrong order, if you don't mind... I've only played it a few times, but it definitely seems less complex. I think Monte may have been conscious that it would get much less play than D&D (probably even from fans of Numenera) and so couldn't rely on system mastery to anything like the same extent. My issue with Monte's article wasn't about the [i]level[/i] of complexity, but rather what I saw as a faulty conclusion. His argument was roughly that a new player would benefit from an easy access point (which I agree with) but that a more advanced player would probably want at least a bit more complexity (which I agree with). But what I saw as the faulty conclusion was that because that advanced player would have been playing longer, and therefore would have reached a higher level, [i]complexity should rise with level[/i]. My issue with this was two-fold: Firstly, it only works if you play only one campaign, ever. Otherwise, the advanced player may find himself again playing a 1st level character that is overly simple for his taste. Secondly, pretty much everyone will have a maximum desired level of complexity (that won't be the same for everyone). If complexity rises with level, then, a person will therefore reach a point where his 'reward' for continuing play is that his character becomes increasingly less fun beyond a certain point. (Indeed, that was very much the case with 3e beyond level 13 or so.) So my view was that it would be better instead if the game had a simple (some might say Basic) version and then various optional modules and rules that could be added on to increase complexity for those who want it. Another reason to be glad of the way 5e worked out. :) But I'm not sure that's necessarily a difference in design philosophy between Monte and Mearls. As indicated, Numenera indicates that Monte can do simple well enough; while I'd say "Iron Heroes" shows Mearls can do complex. I think it was instead just something that came out in the wash. [/QUOTE]
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