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<blockquote data-quote="Majoru Oakheart" data-source="post: 6162248" data-attributes="member: 5143">I'm not sure anymore.&nbsp; I know that our group stopped doing anything but attacking for damage in our 2e game because of this.Someone would say &quot;I'd like to try to leap on the head of that giant and stab it in the back of the head, that should give me extra damage right?&quot;&nbsp; The DM would say, &quot;Wait, you want to jump, 10 feet down from where you are onto the head of the giant who is currently flailing about trying to stomp on your friends below?&quot;&nbsp; &quot;Yeah, that's what I want&quot;&nbsp; &quot;Alright, give me a dex check at minus 5 to aim your jump onto him.&quot;&nbsp; &quot;A DEX check?&nbsp; My dex is 8 and that makes the roll nearly impossible.&quot;&nbsp; &quot;Well, it's a really hard thing you are trying to do: land on the giant while he's moving and also not slide off.&quot;&nbsp; &quot;Well, I don't want to do it anymore if there's an 80% chance I'm going to fail.&nbsp; I thought it would be easy, given it's a giant and therefore nearly impossible to miss.&quot;&nbsp; &quot;But he's moving around a lot and swinging his club around.&nbsp; It's actually VERY difficult to do that.&nbsp; Have you ever jumped 10 feet and tried to hit a precise point?&nbsp; Nearly impossible.&nbsp; And too bad, you said you were trying it, so you are trying it.&nbsp; Make the roll.&quot;&nbsp; &quot;But I tried it figuring it would be easy.&nbsp; I don't want to anymore.&quot;&nbsp; &quot;Well, you should know better.&nbsp; Your character didn't know the chance of success, so neither should you.&nbsp; Just make the roll.&quot;&nbsp; &quot;*sigh* Fine, I fail by 10.&quot;&nbsp; &quot;Alright, you leap, miss the giant and since you failed by so much, you bounce off the giant and hit the wall of the cliff you are jumping off of.&nbsp; Your head smashes into the rocks below for..*rolls* 34 points of damage.&quot;&nbsp; &quot;Well, that kills me.&nbsp; Guess I roll up a new character.&quot;Then, the argument starts about how the DM is just out to get us and he can't even let reasonable actions succeed.&nbsp; Blah, blah, blah.&nbsp; Then we spend the rest of the night arguing about the physics involved in jumping off a cliff onto a moving object.After the 10th or 20th of these arguments we realized it was MUCH safer and less of a headache to roll to hit and roll damage.&nbsp; It's the one thing the rules stated how to do precisely and therefore was likely to work exactly as written.I keep hearing this argument.&nbsp; If you enjoy Skyrim, wouldn't it be even better to have a DM in charge of the monsters so they act more tactically?&nbsp; Wouldn't it be better to have a DM in charge of the NPCs so they can answer your questions with a bit of intelligence instead of just reading verbatim what a voice actor recorded?&nbsp; Isn't it better to be able to play Skyrim with your friends?I really don't understand the argument that says &quot;If D&amp;D is going to limit me to a bunch of pre-planned options, than I'd rather go play a game that limits me even more and makes me lose a bunch of other benefits I got from playing D&amp;D.&quot;If they ever come up with a video game that is multiplayer, has awesome graphics, allows a DM to control all the NPCs and monsters, and is easy enough for a DM to adjudicate in real time, I'd give up D&amp;D in a heartbeat.&nbsp; To me, RPGs are about a combination of roleplaying and tactics.&nbsp; Tactics are sometimes enhanced rather than hindered by having limited choices.&nbsp; That's the reason people still play chess despite it's limited number of choices.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Majoru Oakheart, post: 6162248, member: 5143"] I'm not sure anymore. I know that our group stopped doing anything but attacking for damage in our 2e game because of this. Someone would say "I'd like to try to leap on the head of that giant and stab it in the back of the head, that should give me extra damage right?" The DM would say, "Wait, you want to jump, 10 feet down from where you are onto the head of the giant who is currently flailing about trying to stomp on your friends below?" "Yeah, that's what I want" "Alright, give me a dex check at minus 5 to aim your jump onto him." "A DEX check? My dex is 8 and that makes the roll nearly impossible." "Well, it's a really hard thing you are trying to do: land on the giant while he's moving and also not slide off." "Well, I don't want to do it anymore if there's an 80% chance I'm going to fail. I thought it would be easy, given it's a giant and therefore nearly impossible to miss." "But he's moving around a lot and swinging his club around. It's actually VERY difficult to do that. Have you ever jumped 10 feet and tried to hit a precise point? Nearly impossible. And too bad, you said you were trying it, so you are trying it. Make the roll." "But I tried it figuring it would be easy. I don't want to anymore." "Well, you should know better. Your character didn't know the chance of success, so neither should you. Just make the roll." "*sigh* Fine, I fail by 10." "Alright, you leap, miss the giant and since you failed by so much, you bounce off the giant and hit the wall of the cliff you are jumping off of. Your head smashes into the rocks below for..*rolls* 34 points of damage." "Well, that kills me. Guess I roll up a new character." Then, the argument starts about how the DM is just out to get us and he can't even let reasonable actions succeed. Blah, blah, blah. Then we spend the rest of the night arguing about the physics involved in jumping off a cliff onto a moving object. After the 10th or 20th of these arguments we realized it was MUCH safer and less of a headache to roll to hit and roll damage. It's the one thing the rules stated how to do precisely and therefore was likely to work exactly as written. I keep hearing this argument. If you enjoy Skyrim, wouldn't it be even better to have a DM in charge of the monsters so they act more tactically? Wouldn't it be better to have a DM in charge of the NPCs so they can answer your questions with a bit of intelligence instead of just reading verbatim what a voice actor recorded? Isn't it better to be able to play Skyrim with your friends? I really don't understand the argument that says "If D&D is going to limit me to a bunch of pre-planned options, than I'd rather go play a game that limits me even more and makes me lose a bunch of other benefits I got from playing D&D." If they ever come up with a video game that is multiplayer, has awesome graphics, allows a DM to control all the NPCs and monsters, and is easy enough for a DM to adjudicate in real time, I'd give up D&D in a heartbeat. To me, RPGs are about a combination of roleplaying and tactics. Tactics are sometimes enhanced rather than hindered by having limited choices. That's the reason people still play chess despite it's limited number of choices. [/QUOTE]

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