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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 6162320" data-attributes="member: 87792"><p>To me it looks as if someone has shown Mike Mearls Dungeon World and he's trying to loot the Bonds mechanic from there. Which ... is understandable given that DW was written to emulate one style of D&D.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>XP are there to reward what the game is meant to be about. In 1e you had XP for GP - the game was about getting treasure as fast and safely as possible. And because of the ratios, XP for killing was an afterthought. In 2e you gained XP from behaving like a stereotypical member of your class and doing class-based things. In 3e you gained XP from defeating monsters. In 4e you gained XP from overcoming challenges, whether quests, out of combat challenges (Skill Challenge XP) or combat.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>WotC has spent the past 13 years getting away from the consumer oriented culture that AD&D handed it. In the 90s an <em>average of five books per month</em> were put out for 2e. At no point that I am aware of has WotC even approached this level of consumer-oriented products. And as for a "cult of officialdom", there is not and has never been a cult of any D&D person that exceeded the reverance paid to E. Gary Gygax.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Two things.</p><p></p><p>1: There is nothing a 4e DM can't create. What next does to me as a DM is takes tools away from me. If I want to give a monster a given ability (or power) in 4e there is no reason I shouldn't. If I want to summon Orcus, or to set the DC to walk a tightrope as either 10 or 30 in 4e I can. The rules just tell me both are bad ideas.</p><p></p><p>2: 4e actively puts a lot of power in the DM's hands that was taken away by 3e. In 3e <a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/climb.htm" target="_blank">a standard tree was DC 15 to climb</a>. </p><p></p><p>What the 4e rules do is say "This is a good way to run things and how we suggest. Run it how you like, but running it in other ways will void the waranty."</p><p></p><p>********************</p><p></p><p>Leaving the most interesting for last, Kamikaze Midget brought up the genre emulation/roleplaying mechanics. There are two basic approaches to metagame currency. "What's my action?" and "What's my motivation?"</p><p></p><p>Under "What's my action?" play, I'm going to have that drink because I'm in the head of someone for whom drinking feels good. Never mind the fact that objectively it's stupid and the only direct consequence is that I know I'm letting the side down. So I feel slightly bad about myself.</p><p></p><p>Under "What's my motivation?" play my character drinks because it feels good or because they are under stress and think they can handle it better drunk. Getting the plot point feels good, so it makes me feel good, and it makes me feel I'm better able to handle the coming challenges. The reason I have my character drink is <em>very</em> like the reason my character drinks. And "Just one drink point more. I can han'l it. hic."</p><p></p><p>This means that if I'm not completely immersed it is a much, much smaller step from "what's my motivation" to taking the action naturally than it is from a cold start. The game gives me a high in all the right places. And if I am immersed, I just pick up the bennie <em>and my play doesn't change at all. </em>And then I spend the bennies on extra effort. Which I should have as a decision.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 6162320, member: 87792"] To me it looks as if someone has shown Mike Mearls Dungeon World and he's trying to loot the Bonds mechanic from there. Which ... is understandable given that DW was written to emulate one style of D&D. XP are there to reward what the game is meant to be about. In 1e you had XP for GP - the game was about getting treasure as fast and safely as possible. And because of the ratios, XP for killing was an afterthought. In 2e you gained XP from behaving like a stereotypical member of your class and doing class-based things. In 3e you gained XP from defeating monsters. In 4e you gained XP from overcoming challenges, whether quests, out of combat challenges (Skill Challenge XP) or combat. WotC has spent the past 13 years getting away from the consumer oriented culture that AD&D handed it. In the 90s an [I]average of five books per month[/I] were put out for 2e. At no point that I am aware of has WotC even approached this level of consumer-oriented products. And as for a "cult of officialdom", there is not and has never been a cult of any D&D person that exceeded the reverance paid to E. Gary Gygax. Two things. 1: There is nothing a 4e DM can't create. What next does to me as a DM is takes tools away from me. If I want to give a monster a given ability (or power) in 4e there is no reason I shouldn't. If I want to summon Orcus, or to set the DC to walk a tightrope as either 10 or 30 in 4e I can. The rules just tell me both are bad ideas. 2: 4e actively puts a lot of power in the DM's hands that was taken away by 3e. In 3e [url=http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/climb.htm]a standard tree was DC 15 to climb[/url]. What the 4e rules do is say "This is a good way to run things and how we suggest. Run it how you like, but running it in other ways will void the waranty." ******************** Leaving the most interesting for last, Kamikaze Midget brought up the genre emulation/roleplaying mechanics. There are two basic approaches to metagame currency. "What's my action?" and "What's my motivation?" Under "What's my action?" play, I'm going to have that drink because I'm in the head of someone for whom drinking feels good. Never mind the fact that objectively it's stupid and the only direct consequence is that I know I'm letting the side down. So I feel slightly bad about myself. Under "What's my motivation?" play my character drinks because it feels good or because they are under stress and think they can handle it better drunk. Getting the plot point feels good, so it makes me feel good, and it makes me feel I'm better able to handle the coming challenges. The reason I have my character drink is [I]very[/I] like the reason my character drinks. And "Just one drink point more. I can han'l it. hic." This means that if I'm not completely immersed it is a much, much smaller step from "what's my motivation" to taking the action naturally than it is from a cold start. The game gives me a high in all the right places. And if I am immersed, I just pick up the bennie [I]and my play doesn't change at all. [/I]And then I spend the bennies on extra effort. Which I should have as a decision. [/QUOTE]
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