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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Majoru Oakheart" data-source="post: 6164456" data-attributes="member: 5143">Yeah, I'm not sure how fast that is.  Plus, I think there's a fairly large speed difference between a hawk and a news chopper.  Possibly nearly 100 km/hr difference given my quick search says that depending on the hawk or helicopter one could do 100 km/hr and the other could do 200km/hr.Given it means that someone could reach somewhere in half the time someone else could, that's a huge difference.So, the answer is "however much material the Watcher wants you to get through".That's my point.  Each Watcher might assign a different number based on their mood which doesn't really give you a good sense of what you are accomplishing.Champions says that steel has a defense and body based on how thick it is.  I can't remember the exact number, but lets say 10 body and 5 defense.  This means that anyone with a 5d6 energy blast has to roll well to damage one inch of steel at all(in Champions each 2-5 rolled on a dice counts as 1 body damage, 1s count as 0 and 6s count as 2 damage).Anyone with a 15d6 energy blast cuts through an inch of steel with one blast almost every time.This is actually precisely my point.  The building is a 20 story building made of brick.  But the size of the building doesn't matter to the mechanics, only the asset matters.  The size of the asset doesn't factor in the size or construction of the building either, it's based entirely on the ability of the enemy who pushed it over.The narrative of the game fails to inform the mechanics.That's fine, but luck manipulation mechanics don't have to be separate from a system that feels connected.They slightly inform play.  I mean, I've read a couple datafiles from characters I don't really know too much about and I'm not entirely sure what they are capable of.  I can guess based on the short description on the back of their data file but their exact capabilities and limits are still a mystery to me.Like, if a data file tells me a character can create illusions, how big can the illusions be, how realistic are they?  How easy is it for people to see through them?  If I've read the comic, I might have a sense for the character's limitations, but the rules don't really tell me much.Some of the distinctions are so vague as to have absolutely no idea when they come into play or what purpose they have.I've read through the book twice now, and although it's been a while and I forget the mechanics now, I remember my thought was "Ok, what the heck does this power do?  What is it capable of?  What are its limits?"  The answer the game often came back with was "It doesn't matter.  It adds 1d8 to your dice pool, that's all the game cares about."This is what I like about Champions above all else.  It's default position is "you can't do it unless you spend points on it".  This will always be the answer if you didn't buy a flash vs sight in Champions.It's the best way to keep the game balanced.  I really hate "hidden power" in characters in any game.  I generally refer to hidden power as abilities you have simply because it "makes sense" given other powers you have.  Like the Spiderman example.  It "makes sense" that you could blind people with your webs so suddenly you have another power that may put you over the power curve simply because your DM is unwilling to say no and restrict you to the abilities you are actually supposed to have.True, but the rules don't tell you that.  You don't know the range of his webs, you don't know how fast he can swing, you don't know how strong his webs are if you attempt to cut them.  You don't know anything except a short description that says "He can shoot webs and swing on them" and "Web d8".To me this smacks of not HAVING rules.  If the answer is always yes then it doesn't matter what the rules say or how much information they give you...because you can do whatever you want.Without structure, we might as well be playing cops and robbers in our basement yelling out "I killed you with my super-duper-ultimate laser!"  "Uh uh...I'm immune to lasers, you can't hurt me!"I find that characters are as defined by their limitations as they are by their powers.  Knowledge of those limitations helps you to play that character.No.  Sometimes there needs to be some abstraction for ease of use.  There's a reason that although Champions is my favorite system that I don't play it regularly.  It's rules are so detailed that nothing gets done half the time.  For ease of use, I prefer a system like D&D which takes a middle ground approach of having enough detail to satisfy me and having enough abstraction to make the game playable.What I AM saying is that a game should never get TOO abstract.  Which I believe MHRP has.They can.  But often they don't.For instance:"I leap up into the air, attach my web to the ceiling and swing over, kicking the enemy in the face as I joke about him having a nice fall."  I add(numbers will likely be wrong, don't have my book handy) 1d6 acrobatics, 1d10 web, 1d8 "mouthy", 1d8 solo, 1d8 super strength.  I roll 1d6, 3d8, 1d10.  I roll above the enemy's defense roll and I do damage."I turn my webs into boxing gloves that I put around my hands, I slide under the enemies legs, doing a roll, I quickly turn around and punch him in the back while telling him not to get punch drunk."  1d6 acrobatics, 1d10 web, 1d8 "mouthy", 1d8 solo, 1d8 super strength.  I roll 1d6, 3d8, 1d10.  I roll above the enemy's defense roll and I do damage.My decisions had 0 effect on the turn other than to provide a colour commentary on what I did.Now, in a game like D&D, your DM would likely say that you can't describe something that isn't within your ability to do it.  If you are attacking with your sword, you can't describe yourself as kicking since that's not the attack you are using.  Kicking would do different damage and likely has a different bonus to hit.  So you describe what your abilities say you can do.My problem with a system as abstract as MHRP is that its philosophy is "say yes" and "you can do anything you want" but the vast majority of the time that freedom isn't reflected in the mechanics at all.I don't know.  I haven't found players who would use any unexpected tactics.  Even given complete freedom to describe whatever they wanted with no rules at all, most of them would default to "I hit it".  They want to play the game, not write stories.  Half of them would write stupid stories if given the chance.Champions may just be able to cover all possibilities.  I'd say it's likely the most comprehensive ruleset in existence.  However, it requires two 700 page books to do so and half the time you're dealing with fiddly rules like "Ok, so you were traveling at 26.7 km/h.  After going through that wall, it reduced your momentum so you are only going at 10.24 km/h.  That means you only take 3d6 damage when you hit that mailbox.  Your defenses are high enough to absorb that damage so it doesn't hurt you.  However, that much damage is enough to destroy the mailbox and slows you down so you end up...10 meters away from it."But your limits were also very strictly defined so attempting things you couldn't do wasn't possible.  It covered EVERY possibility.  However, you had to buy EVERY possibility if you wanted it.</blockquote>

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