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Legends & Lore: Skills
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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 5585200" data-attributes="member: 82106"><p>I think there's a middle ground between tossing a Perception check to search a room and describing each thing the PC searches and just telling them exactly what they see. A Perception check can let the DM know how observant the character is. A high check can provide hints about where to search "you notice there seems to be something under the bed" without giving away the whole show, and the player can still make decisions about exactly how he's searching and what he's looking for. I don't think you necessarily need to provide a "role play bonus" as a numerical bonus. </p><p></p><p>I've always preferred the "roll first and then describe" concept in general as it reduces the difference between the two styles in many cases. OK, you rolled a terrible Perception check, maybe you describe that as failing to look under the bed or not noticing that locked chest in the corner behind the coat rack. It certainly works well for social skill use situations where the player can roll his Diplomacy roll and if he gets a lousy roll then maybe the character just doesn't clue in on the best approach and the player can describe him putting his foot in his mouth instead. This engages RP and narrative talent. There are still plenty of opportunities for the player to think up clever plans, he's got to have SOMETHING clever to use to describe his good Diplomacy check after all, and if he can only come up with something rather thin and implausible then the check may succeed but the results are going to be in keeping with how he narrated his actions. Impressing someone that you are a great guy is fine, but it doesn't necessarily get you that sweet deal on ritual components. </p><p></p><p>And yeah, I notice that Mike didn't mention the way using skill checks lets the PC's competency be decoupled from the player's. One issue with 4e I think is that since clever strategic planning seems to be less of an element in the game there's less scope for cleverness at that level, which in AD&D at least was where cunning players really could make a huge impact. You have to aim consciously for that sort of play in 4e since the PCs come with a lot of built-in capabilities, unlike your average low level AD&D party where you definitely had to scrape for every advantage you could get if you were going to survive.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 5585200, member: 82106"] I think there's a middle ground between tossing a Perception check to search a room and describing each thing the PC searches and just telling them exactly what they see. A Perception check can let the DM know how observant the character is. A high check can provide hints about where to search "you notice there seems to be something under the bed" without giving away the whole show, and the player can still make decisions about exactly how he's searching and what he's looking for. I don't think you necessarily need to provide a "role play bonus" as a numerical bonus. I've always preferred the "roll first and then describe" concept in general as it reduces the difference between the two styles in many cases. OK, you rolled a terrible Perception check, maybe you describe that as failing to look under the bed or not noticing that locked chest in the corner behind the coat rack. It certainly works well for social skill use situations where the player can roll his Diplomacy roll and if he gets a lousy roll then maybe the character just doesn't clue in on the best approach and the player can describe him putting his foot in his mouth instead. This engages RP and narrative talent. There are still plenty of opportunities for the player to think up clever plans, he's got to have SOMETHING clever to use to describe his good Diplomacy check after all, and if he can only come up with something rather thin and implausible then the check may succeed but the results are going to be in keeping with how he narrated his actions. Impressing someone that you are a great guy is fine, but it doesn't necessarily get you that sweet deal on ritual components. And yeah, I notice that Mike didn't mention the way using skill checks lets the PC's competency be decoupled from the player's. One issue with 4e I think is that since clever strategic planning seems to be less of an element in the game there's less scope for cleverness at that level, which in AD&D at least was where cunning players really could make a huge impact. You have to aim consciously for that sort of play in 4e since the PCs come with a lot of built-in capabilities, unlike your average low level AD&D party where you definitely had to scrape for every advantage you could get if you were going to survive. [/QUOTE]
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