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Legends & Lore: Skills
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<blockquote data-quote="delericho" data-source="post: 5586039" data-attributes="member: 22424"><p>The problem with the former is that it's dull. The problem with the latter is that it takes considerably longer, and it penalises the player who happens to omit the one area that actually has something hidden ("ah, but you didn't look behind the pictures"...).</p><p></p><p>Also, if you allow players to bypass the roll by specifying actions in detail, you allow them to "roleplay around" the mechanics. This effectively penalises the less-charismatic <em>player</em> who isn't equipped to do this, allowing the savvy player to avoid investing in Search/Diplomacy/whatever skills.</p><p></p><p>It's really difficult to find the happy medium.</p><p></p><p>Mearls point that better ability with skills should 'unlock' more powerful uses is a good one, although this doesn't actually require any great changes to the rules - if we simply set DC 30 (or whatever) as "the limit of real-world human ability", then DCs higher than that can be used for such appropriately-impossible skills. Indeed, the 3e Epic Level Handbook did this very thing (although it was widely derided for doing so).</p><p></p><p>In general, my preferences for skills are as follows:</p><p></p><p>1) I prefer the "skill ranks" model of 3e to the Trained/Untrained binary switch of 4e. Though the modifications Pathfinder makes are even better.</p><p></p><p>2) I would do away with trained-only skills (from the 3e model). Although Mearls says these were based on logic, that logic tended to be quite thin in places. Better just to let everyone <em>try</em> anything, and sweep concerns about versimilitude under the carpet of "it's a fantasy game".</p><p></p><p>3) I would "fix the math" in this area, to get skill bonuses into parity with the various attack bonuses. This will then allow people to roll Skill vs Defence, which still appears somewhat troublesome in 4e. (Though it was worse in Star Wars Saga Edition, especially with the Use the Force skill...)</p><p></p><p>4) Expand and enhance the Skill Challenge systems. Conceptually, these may be the single best thing about 4e. However, in terms of execution, they leave quite a lot to be desired, especially as used in the various prepublished adventures.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="delericho, post: 5586039, member: 22424"] The problem with the former is that it's dull. The problem with the latter is that it takes considerably longer, and it penalises the player who happens to omit the one area that actually has something hidden ("ah, but you didn't look behind the pictures"...). Also, if you allow players to bypass the roll by specifying actions in detail, you allow them to "roleplay around" the mechanics. This effectively penalises the less-charismatic [i]player[/i] who isn't equipped to do this, allowing the savvy player to avoid investing in Search/Diplomacy/whatever skills. It's really difficult to find the happy medium. Mearls point that better ability with skills should 'unlock' more powerful uses is a good one, although this doesn't actually require any great changes to the rules - if we simply set DC 30 (or whatever) as "the limit of real-world human ability", then DCs higher than that can be used for such appropriately-impossible skills. Indeed, the 3e Epic Level Handbook did this very thing (although it was widely derided for doing so). In general, my preferences for skills are as follows: 1) I prefer the "skill ranks" model of 3e to the Trained/Untrained binary switch of 4e. Though the modifications Pathfinder makes are even better. 2) I would do away with trained-only skills (from the 3e model). Although Mearls says these were based on logic, that logic tended to be quite thin in places. Better just to let everyone [i]try[/i] anything, and sweep concerns about versimilitude under the carpet of "it's a fantasy game". 3) I would "fix the math" in this area, to get skill bonuses into parity with the various attack bonuses. This will then allow people to roll Skill vs Defence, which still appears somewhat troublesome in 4e. (Though it was worse in Star Wars Saga Edition, especially with the Use the Force skill...) 4) Expand and enhance the Skill Challenge systems. Conceptually, these may be the single best thing about 4e. However, in terms of execution, they leave quite a lot to be desired, especially as used in the various prepublished adventures. [/QUOTE]
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