Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Lokiare" data-source="post: 6262518" data-attributes="member: 83996">Did I miss a packet after the 8/02/13 packet? I'm not seeing anything listed in the Fighter section for a Great Weapon feature.Let's go over this line by line so everyone can understand where we are getting our numbers:Our assumptions:Both    3 Rounds per encounter    4 Encounters    Total rounds = 12    Average AC 12.86_ (I went through all the level 5 monsters in the bestiary) so we'll say 13    Average save bonuses (rounded in favor of the Fighter) Str: +3, Dex: +2, Con: +2, Int: -1, Wis: +1, Cha: +0Fighter    Level 5    Great Sword (2d6, slashing)    Action Surge 2x a day (being generous, its unlikely in play they would get it more than 1x day)    Warrior sub-class for the 19-20 crit range.    2 attacks per action (4x when using Action Surge).    Strength 20 (+5)    Attack bonus +8 (Str mod + fighter bonus)    Damage 2d6+5Wizard    Level 5    Only use half of their daily spells for combat. 1st(2), 2nd(2), 3rd(1)    Spell DC 17    Intelligence 20 (+5)    Attack bonus +7 (Magic bonus + Int mod)    Evocation sub-class (Potent Cantrip - Half Damage on a miss or save)Fighter Math:Hit %: (((invert - (AC - bonus)) + equal to or greater on dice) * percent of each point on dice) - crit chanceHit %: (((20 - (13 - 8)) + 1) * .05) - .1 = .7 = 70%Crit %: Percent of each point on dice * number of points in crit rangeCrit %: .05 * 2 = .1Damage based on hit and crit chance:Hit ((1d6*2)+str mod) * hit chanceHit ((3.5*2)+5)*.7 = 8.4;Crit (((2d6*2)+1d6) + str mod * crit chanceCrit ((((12*2)+3.5)+5) * .1 = 3.25Total 8.4 + 3.25 = 11.65 per attack.Number of attacks per round day:(attacks per round * rounds in a day) + extra attacks from action surge(2 * 12) + 4 = 28Total Damage per day: 28 * 11.65 = 326.2Wizard Math:Dex vs. Spell DCHit %: (((DC - Dex mod) - equal to or greater on dice) * percent of each point on dice)Hit %: (((17 - 2)) - 1) * .05) = .7 = 70%Miss %: 100% - 70% = 30%Con vs. Spell DCHit %: (((DC - Con mod) - equal to or greater on dice) * percent of each point on dice)Hit %: (((17 - 2)) - 1) * .05) = .7 = 70%Miss %: 100% - 70% = 30%Wis vs. Spell DCHit %: (((DC - Con mod) - equal to or greater on dice) * percent of each point on dice)Hit %: (((17 - 1)) - 1) * .05) = .75 = 75%Miss %: 100% - 75% = 25%Str vs. Spell DCHit %: (((DC - Con mod) - equal to or greater on dice) * percent of each point on dice)Hit %: (((17 - 3)) - 1) * .05) = .65 = 65%Miss %: 100% - 65% = 35%Vs. AC Magic bonus + Int mod:Hit %: (((invert - (AC - bonus)) + equal to or greater on dice) * percent of each point on dice) - crit chanceHit %: (((20 - (13 - 7)) + 1) * .05) - .05 = .7 = 70%Crit %: Percent of each point on dice * number of points in crit rangeCrit %: .05 * 1 = .05 = 5%Miss %: 100% - (hit chance + crit chance)Miss %: 1 - (.7 + .05) = .25CantripsChill Touch / Ray of FrostHit: (1d8 * 2) * hit chanceHit: (4.5*2) * .7 = 6.3Crit: ((1d8 * 2) + 1d8) * crit chanceCrit: ((8*2)+4.5) * .05 = 1.025Miss: ((1d8 * 2) / 2) * miss chanceMiss: ((4.5 * 2) / 2) * .25 = 1.125Total: 6.3 + 1.025 + 1.125 = 8.45Shocking GraspHit: (1d8 * 2) * hit chanceHit: (4.5*2) * .7 = 6.3Miss: ((1d8*2)/2) * miss chanceMiss: ((4.5*2)/2) * .25 = 1.125Total: 6.3 + 1.125 = 7.425So our best bet for Cantrips is Chill Touch / Ray of Frost for 8.45 DPRNow for the dailies:1st levelMagic MissileHit: (3d4+3) * hit chanceHit: ((2.5 * 3)+3) * 1 = 10.5Thunder WaveHit: (1d8*2) * hit chanceHit: (4.5*2) * .7 = 6.3Miss: ((1d8*2)/2) * miss chanceMiss: ((4.5*2)/2) * .25 = 1.125Total: 6.3 + 1.125 = 7.425Burning HandsHit: (3d6) * hit chanceHit: ((3.5*3) * .7 = 7.35Miss: ((3d6)/2) * miss chanceMiss: ((3.5*3)/2) * .3 = 1.575Total: 7.35 + 1.575 = 8.925So Burning Hands is our winner at 8.925 damage per cast and we can cast it 2x for 17.85.2nd LevelMelf's Acid ArrowHit: (6d6) * hit chanceHit: (3.5*6) * .7 = 14.7Crit: ((6d6) + 1d6) * crit chanceCrit: ((6*6)+3.5) * .05 = 1.975Miss: (3d6) * miss chanceMiss: (3.5 * 3) * .25 = 2.625Total: 14.7 + 1.975 + 2.625 = 19.3Scorching RayHit: (2d6) * hit chanceHit: (3.5*2) * .7 = 4.9Crit: ((2d6) + 1d6) * crit chanceCrit: ((6*2)+3.5) * .05 = 0.775Total: (4.9 + 0.775) * 3 = 17.025So looks like 2 Melf's Acid Arrows for 38.6 damage per day. So far our total is 56.453rd LevelSchorching Ray (used from a 3rd level slot)Hit: (2d6) * hit chanceHit: (3.5*2) * .7 = 4.9Crit: ((2d6) + 1d6) * crit chanceCrit: ((6*2)+3.5) * .05 = 0.775Total: (4.9 + 0.775) * 4 = 22.7Hasted Cantrips for 3 rounds8.45 * 3 = 25.35Flaming Sphere (used from a 3rd level slot)Hit: (3d6) * hit chanceHit: ((3.5*3) * .7 = 7.35Miss: ((3d6)/2) * miss chanceMiss: ((3.5*3)/2) * .3 = 1.575Total: 7.35 + 1.575 = 8.925 * 3 rounds = 26.775Now to total all the spells of the day:2x Burning Hands (17.85), 2x Melf's Acid Arrow (38.6), 1x Flaming Sphere (3rd level slot for 3 rounds) (26.775), Ray of Frost x 5 (42.25) = 125.475Fighter = 326.2Wizard = 125.475Not that impressive huh? Well, now instead of trying to deal direct damage, lets take a look at what happens when the Wizard takes out creatures using non-damaging spells:The average hp at level 5 for monsters in the bestiary is 44. So theh base damage of a save or die spell is 44 multiplied by its hit rate.The extra attack granted by Haste to the Fighter counts as DPR for the Wizard, because without the Wizard there to cast it, the Fighter wouldn't be able to do it.1st levelCharm Person(when used to convince a combatant to leave the battle)Hit: (44) * hit chanceHit: 44 * .75 = 33Now we know that not all creatures will be humanoid, however in a given day its pretty likely you will run across at least 2 humanoids that you come into conflict with so x2 = 662nd levelHold Person(Assuming they will be dead in 3 rounds, since combats only last 3 rounds, we will do the math for 3 rounds of hold person)Hit: 44 * ((hit chance)^rounds)Hit: 44 * ((.75)^3) = 18.5625Web(Which makes it trivial to kill something, advantage on attacks and the target gets disadvantage on their attacks if they even have a ranged attack, unless they have some kind of fire which is rare, we will do the math for 1 Dex save and then 2 Str checks vs. Spell DC)Hit: 44 * (((Dex hit chance)^rounds) * ((Str hit chance)^rounds))Hit: 44 * (((.70)^1) * ((.65)^2)) = 13.013Suggestion("It would probably be best if get as far away from here as you can, its dangerous")Hit: 44 * hit chanceHit: 44 * .75 = 33x2 = 663rd levelHaste(used on the Fighter and the Fighters extra attacks damage counted toward the Mage)Fighter attack damage * rounds in a combat11.65 * 3 = 34.95Charm Person x2 (66), Suggestion x2 (66), Haste (on Fighter) 34.95, and Ray of Frost x7 (59.15) for a total of 226.1Fighter = 326.2Wizard = 226.1Notice how close those are. The Wizard does about 70% of the damage of the Fighter over the course of a 3 round per encounter 4 encounter per day. Now that's when they give up half their spells. They can easily outdo the Fighter if they go all combat spells:Charm Person x4 (132), Suggestion x3 (99), Haste (on fighter) x2 69.7 and Ray of Frost x7 (59.15) for a total of 359.85Fighter = 326.2Wizard = 359.85So in this case the Fighter actually does about 90% of the damage of the Wizard. Since the Fighter has little or no out of combat utility (minus standing watch, which the Wizard can do with a ritual casting of alarm) this comparison is valid.This gap only widens as the characters gain levels and the Wizard goes up in quadratic power. On top of this the Wizard has the ability to hit multiple targets with Suggestion and other save or die/suck spells. Which means the Wizard comes out ahead easily except in rare corner cases when the DM doesn't follow the guidelines in the DM document.Edit: Note I didn't use Arcane Recovery which would push the number up much higher.Edit 2: Also note that I'm using the "080213 DnD Next Playtest Packet". I don't have access to the newer one, if someone would be so kind to PM me a way to get it, I would love to do an analysis on it too.</blockquote>

Verification