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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chrisling" data-source="post: 396409" data-attributes="member: 6816">But the actual numbers of people good at things is incredibly relevant to this discussion.  One of my presumptions is that, y'know, the average member of the species in question looks pretty much like they do in the MM.  And out of the MM, well, the elves would get their asses smeared from here to kingdom come by orcs.  I shudder to think what would happen if they had to fight hobgoblins.  ;pThe notion that elves learn really, really, really slowly is sorta backed up by the PHB, where a century old elf is . . . first level.If you ignore that, well, sure, my argument starts to fall apart -- tho' not completely.  I mean, if we're going to say that elves are higher level because of their long lives, I think we'd have to take the culture of the orcs into account, too.  They are, as most people agree, incredibly warlike.  Which means they collect huge amounts of experience points quickly.  The orc survivors are likely to be hard as adamantine.I concede this.  It's certainly possible.  Of course, the problem with modifying creatures that are intelligent is that they might come to understand that their condition is slavery and resent it -- and act accordingly.  Like shoggoths uprising against the Old Ones.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />It also raises a lot of moral questions about whether slavery can ever be practiced by good people.  My gut says "no," even if the slave is a willing one.Do elves understand orcs and other humanoids?  Orcs live fast and die hard.  They go out in blazes of glory, their fist raised against the world.  That's a pretty alien mindset for a creature that can expect to live a thousand years and believes in harmony with nature.And who says that treants don't have a hierachy?  Why not?  Because they're trees?  Well, they're incredibly wise, brilliant trees that walk around.  I think there is a huge difference between a treant and the elm growing in the yard.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />So, while it is possible a treant might shrug when elves proclaim themselves the lords of the forest, they might also tap that elf's skull against the nearest rock and politely remind them that the elves are the newcomers and proclaiming themselves forest lords is not what the FOREST wants.  After all, the forest *is* the trees.The disadvantage of the elves running this, too, is that they might botch the job.  It's one thing to say, "Hey, I'm in charge, here."  It's quite another to do the job well.  Treants might not believe elves have the skill to do it -- I think it's a legitimate question, too.  Elves, in D&D games, just aren't particularly special or capable. *waits for the ball to be in my court*  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

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