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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Rhialto" data-source="post: 398393" data-attributes="member: 630">Hey, some excellent points!  Now allow me to counterpoint!  First off--yes, elves are chaotic.  But they're Chaotic GOOD, which means that while they have their differences, they usually don't backstab each other, and live lives of treachery and deceit.  Chaotic does not mean "self-centered jerk", despite what some people would think.  That would be "Evil".  And occasionally neutral, but that's another discussion.  The orcs' problems aren't because they're Chaotic, their problems are because they're Chaotic, and Evil, and not very bright besides.   And the constant fighting does weaken orcs, I'm afraid, because it makes them more vulnerable to their external enemies, just like it weakened the Plains Indians.  Sure the occasional potential Atilla may come around, but the orcs' generally low Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores make them far rarer.  Plus orcs have a lot of enemies.  When they unite, they often wind up having to fight numerous foes at once, many of which easily match them in combat skills.  And the orcs truly seem to lack the military genius of the Mongols.Now to your other points.  First off on the "if your fighting on your land, you've already lost'--bull.  You've just demonstrated the difficulties of military strategy, a subject so thorny that hundreds of people have argued for several thousand years on it.  The counterargument generally goes that attacking takes far more resources than defending, leaves you open to attacks yourself, is far more demoralizing, and can leave you weakened afterwards, especially if it is not followed by a decisive victory.Also, you can't count the acts of Elvish adventurers as being representive of Elvish society.  Adventurers, by their very nature, are something of a special case...And yes, Byzantium shrank away to nothing--OVER A THOUSAND YEARS!  That's not doing so badly, against superior numbers.Oh, and to the "elvish magic supremacy isn't really supported in the rules" point.  Favored class--wizard.</blockquote>

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