Lunamancer
First Post
Hello folks,
As you can tell, I'm not a regular around these parts, but I had been lurking for some time reading the Lejendary Adventure thread. Unfortunately, the thread became closed before I had a chance to really add in my two coppers, and I know a number of people who were following the thread avidly and hated the way it ended, so I've decided to start up a new thread for discussion on that topic. Hopefully we can keep friendly and on-topic this time around. So, here's my take on the LA game:
The Lejendary Adventure game consists of 38 broadly defined abilities, and so far 3 new optional ones offered up in later publications. By most fantasy RPG standards, this number may be small, but they are enough to cover the broad range of activities taken by fantasy heroes. Since each Ability is so broadly defined, it only takes a handful to create an interesting and viable character, and thus Avatar-Characters in LA only require a small number of game stats. This not only makes Avatar sheets more managable but means there's always plenty of room for advancement. And despite the "fuzzy" interpretation that must be applied, Ability descriptions couldn't be more straight-forward, clear, and concise--the descriptions begin "All activities having to do with. . ." and then continue by giving an enumerated list of what the ability covers.
Here are two of my Avatars, one a starting Avatar, the other one I have played several times.
You'll note that despite the extra milage put on the second Avatar, the two are very similar in power level and could easily be put into the same game without there being any problems of the adventure being too easy for one or too hard for the other. I find this to be a major advantage of the game. While the character of Gartak has shown significant improvement in Abilities since first created (added a total of nearly 30 points to his Abilities), he is still perfectly playable in a campaign of beginning Avatars. This means a player who for some reason or another must create a new Avatar in the middle of the campaign can do so without being so far behind his companions. This means published adventures do not have to specify power level, as mostly any group of Avatars will work just fine. Obviously, you don't want to send starting Avatars into Castle Wolfmoon, nor would you want to send Avatars played for 4 years through the Cavalcade without some modifications here and there (and believe me, it doesn't take many modifications to make it a challenge), but for the most part, most adventures provide a good challenge for most Avatar parties.
This is a common theme in the LA game. Any Avatars for any adventure. Any Avatars may have, know, and use extraordinary powers of any grade. Starting (human) Avatars may choose any abilities in any combination--including Panprobability. Yup, you can be learned in the ways of planar travel right from the start if you wish. In short, the entire game is at your disposal--not when you reach high enough level, but from the moment you finish your Avatars. This also makes it easier for an Avatar from one campaign to be transfered over to another without it seeming out of place, thus only the pickiest of GMs need be present for Avatar creation. And certainly if a months of adventuring experience does not make all that much of a different in terms of Avatar power, the handling of fractional ability points at character creation is a non-issue.
Min-maxing is also no worry. Each Ability and combination of Abilities is equally viable, with no Ability being more powerful than another. Any combination of abilities that makes an Avatar exceptionally good in one area will invariably leave the Avatar weak in other areas. Avatars that try to cover all the bases will not be particularly strong in any area, but will be competent in several. Given the various situations one encounters in a fantasy setting, I've found any Avatar will have his or her moment to shine, and will also be blind-sided by a weakness. However, being totally out of options in a given situation is a very, very rare thing as a given action is often covered by several abilities.
Compared to 3E, the amount of differentiation in skill between characters is much, much greater. Whereas starting D&D characters only have about a 5% difference in combat ability (the difference between 50% and 55% for starting mage and fighter respectively--or up to a 30% difference when favorable attribute modifiers are considered), starting LA Avatars can have a chance as low as 5% or as high as 99% (fighter-types usually falling in the 60%-80% range after weapon precision is considered), and so practically the entire range of possibilities is there. The same is true of all abilities except for the Speed-based ones, which are less likely to start at very high levels--for humans anyway. Wylfs and Kobolds (the most "magical" of the races available) can start very high indeed--up to 76 for Kobolds. And if the Kobold attempts to activate the power under normal circumstances (non-tense, non-threatening situation), there is a bonus of 20 applied, making chance for success 96% at the start. Again, even here, practically the entire range of possibilities is available to starting Avatars. So starting Avatars can often be as different as day and night--it is more than just the juggling of a few points here and there, and thus the game's claim in offering so many character combinations.
A point of confusion among many is the idea that LA has no "defense" rolls, or means of defending. This is not the case, as there are several ways an Avatar can defend him- or herself. Some call for rolls, others do not. Some modify opponent's chance to hit, some modify harm done, some work like a dodge check to completely avoid the attack, and some are combinations of all of the above. Minstrelsy and Unarmed Combat Abilities (as well as the new Swashbuckling Ability) reduce harm, and work as long as the Avatar can and does use the Abilities. They do not count as an action. Parrying does count as an action, includes a chance for a parry, full parry, and a parry and reverse. Partial parries reduce harm, full parries essentially negate the attack, and the parry and reverse does just that! Allows for the defender to take a counter attack after negating the attack. Luck ability allows for a lucky dodge/parry--an all-or-nothing type of thing, and does not count as an action but can be used only once per round. Taking advantage of defender situational modifiers is yet another way to defend oneself, and finally there is the dive to avoid attack, which is mostly a last-ditch effort, but is a check to avoid an attack completely.
Combat-wise, compared to 3E, LA has far fewer enumerated combat options/maneuvers, but this does not mean that the LA game offers anything other than endless possibilities. Standard LA combat options include: normal attack, aimed attack, parry, grapple, overbear, and diving to (and to avoid) attack. Only half of these (the first three) are presented to players in the Lejendary Rules for All Players. However, this works perfectly for my style of gaming, as I want players to be thinking less about the rules and thinking more outside of the box. I ask players to describe what they want their characters to do (rather than which rules they want to use) and I take it from there. These 6 maneuvers (in addition to the Ability Scores and Base Ratings used in the game) provide the LM with all the tools he or she needs to adjudicate any action a player can imagine (little modifiers applied logically to player description of character actions can go a long way, and LA does this quite well). Incidentally, I used to run my D&D games just like this, and while it worked well and players had more fun than with your typical D&D game, I've found that LA is better-geared towards doing this and has made my job as GM much, much easier. I would definitely say that despite the fewer hard-coded options available in LA, this game is perfectly suited for people who like to get creative.
I'll use last night's game as an example:
As you can tell, it really pays off to have a plan. Especially when you start looking at the list of situational modifiers--a whopping 60% bonus when catching someone totally off-guard (as they are an unresisting defender). This would equate to a +12 bonus in D&D--much, much greater than the Thief's backstab bonus. LA situational modifiers in general seem to be about doubly potent as the equivalent D&D ones, meaning the situation is at least as important as the game stat. For this reason, Avatars can easily operate in areas where they are unskilled, so long as they pick some of the easier tasks. And favorable modifiers are not at all rare in the LA game, with bonuses up to 30% "in cases where the task has been performed frequently and/or correctly in the past by the character"--in other words, routine stuff.
In D&D lingo, think of your unmodified LA check as being a DC 21. A 30% bonus then makes for the equivalent of DC 15, whereas that 60% bonus I was mentioning before would be the equivalent of DC 9. In D&D lingo, the approximate skill bonus is equal to one-fifth the LA percentile rating. So Gartak's Stealth ability is good for a +12 bonus in several areas (hiding, moving undetected, gaining access--just to state the ones mentioned in the above example). Two points of Health in LA equate to approximately 1 hit point (and this is very approximate, since the two systems are very different), and so you can see that Gartak has the skills of about an 8th or 9th level D&D character but the hit points of only a 4th or 5th level one. Granted, Gartak has a low Health compared to most LA starting Avatars, but you will find in general that LA characters, in D&D terms, tend to have higher skills and lower hit points. This certainly tends to make the game run a little differently.
And that different feel has been cited as Gary's reason for new terminology. But I find some of the terminology is just plain more convenient than more conventional terms. Instead of "Spells" LA has "Extraordinary Activations" (or Extraordinary Powers if you prefer). I find this better terminology because it is broader in application. This comes to light when you consider the Psychogenics ability--the powers there are not spells by anymeans, but rather psychic powers. One does not refer to psionics as "spells" in D&D, and such would certainly be inaccurate in LA. But by calling them activations or powers, you can talk about any such extraordinary ability use using the same vocabulary. Most RPGs these days have a "GM" despite "DM" being the accepted term prior to that. Clearly a the term "Game Master" is a better fit than "Dungeon Master" for most RPGs, and so that's what most RPGs use. The terminology in LA has been selected not only to be unique, but also to suit the game.
As you can tell, I'm not a regular around these parts, but I had been lurking for some time reading the Lejendary Adventure thread. Unfortunately, the thread became closed before I had a chance to really add in my two coppers, and I know a number of people who were following the thread avidly and hated the way it ended, so I've decided to start up a new thread for discussion on that topic. Hopefully we can keep friendly and on-topic this time around. So, here's my take on the LA game:
The Lejendary Adventure game consists of 38 broadly defined abilities, and so far 3 new optional ones offered up in later publications. By most fantasy RPG standards, this number may be small, but they are enough to cover the broad range of activities taken by fantasy heroes. Since each Ability is so broadly defined, it only takes a handful to create an interesting and viable character, and thus Avatar-Characters in LA only require a small number of game stats. This not only makes Avatar sheets more managable but means there's always plenty of room for advancement. And despite the "fuzzy" interpretation that must be applied, Ability descriptions couldn't be more straight-forward, clear, and concise--the descriptions begin "All activities having to do with. . ." and then continue by giving an enumerated list of what the ability covers.
Here are two of my Avatars, one a starting Avatar, the other one I have played several times.
You'll note that despite the extra milage put on the second Avatar, the two are very similar in power level and could easily be put into the same game without there being any problems of the adventure being too easy for one or too hard for the other. I find this to be a major advantage of the game. While the character of Gartak has shown significant improvement in Abilities since first created (added a total of nearly 30 points to his Abilities), he is still perfectly playable in a campaign of beginning Avatars. This means a player who for some reason or another must create a new Avatar in the middle of the campaign can do so without being so far behind his companions. This means published adventures do not have to specify power level, as mostly any group of Avatars will work just fine. Obviously, you don't want to send starting Avatars into Castle Wolfmoon, nor would you want to send Avatars played for 4 years through the Cavalcade without some modifications here and there (and believe me, it doesn't take many modifications to make it a challenge), but for the most part, most adventures provide a good challenge for most Avatar parties.
This is a common theme in the LA game. Any Avatars for any adventure. Any Avatars may have, know, and use extraordinary powers of any grade. Starting (human) Avatars may choose any abilities in any combination--including Panprobability. Yup, you can be learned in the ways of planar travel right from the start if you wish. In short, the entire game is at your disposal--not when you reach high enough level, but from the moment you finish your Avatars. This also makes it easier for an Avatar from one campaign to be transfered over to another without it seeming out of place, thus only the pickiest of GMs need be present for Avatar creation. And certainly if a months of adventuring experience does not make all that much of a different in terms of Avatar power, the handling of fractional ability points at character creation is a non-issue.
Min-maxing is also no worry. Each Ability and combination of Abilities is equally viable, with no Ability being more powerful than another. Any combination of abilities that makes an Avatar exceptionally good in one area will invariably leave the Avatar weak in other areas. Avatars that try to cover all the bases will not be particularly strong in any area, but will be competent in several. Given the various situations one encounters in a fantasy setting, I've found any Avatar will have his or her moment to shine, and will also be blind-sided by a weakness. However, being totally out of options in a given situation is a very, very rare thing as a given action is often covered by several abilities.
Compared to 3E, the amount of differentiation in skill between characters is much, much greater. Whereas starting D&D characters only have about a 5% difference in combat ability (the difference between 50% and 55% for starting mage and fighter respectively--or up to a 30% difference when favorable attribute modifiers are considered), starting LA Avatars can have a chance as low as 5% or as high as 99% (fighter-types usually falling in the 60%-80% range after weapon precision is considered), and so practically the entire range of possibilities is there. The same is true of all abilities except for the Speed-based ones, which are less likely to start at very high levels--for humans anyway. Wylfs and Kobolds (the most "magical" of the races available) can start very high indeed--up to 76 for Kobolds. And if the Kobold attempts to activate the power under normal circumstances (non-tense, non-threatening situation), there is a bonus of 20 applied, making chance for success 96% at the start. Again, even here, practically the entire range of possibilities is available to starting Avatars. So starting Avatars can often be as different as day and night--it is more than just the juggling of a few points here and there, and thus the game's claim in offering so many character combinations.
A point of confusion among many is the idea that LA has no "defense" rolls, or means of defending. This is not the case, as there are several ways an Avatar can defend him- or herself. Some call for rolls, others do not. Some modify opponent's chance to hit, some modify harm done, some work like a dodge check to completely avoid the attack, and some are combinations of all of the above. Minstrelsy and Unarmed Combat Abilities (as well as the new Swashbuckling Ability) reduce harm, and work as long as the Avatar can and does use the Abilities. They do not count as an action. Parrying does count as an action, includes a chance for a parry, full parry, and a parry and reverse. Partial parries reduce harm, full parries essentially negate the attack, and the parry and reverse does just that! Allows for the defender to take a counter attack after negating the attack. Luck ability allows for a lucky dodge/parry--an all-or-nothing type of thing, and does not count as an action but can be used only once per round. Taking advantage of defender situational modifiers is yet another way to defend oneself, and finally there is the dive to avoid attack, which is mostly a last-ditch effort, but is a check to avoid an attack completely.
Combat-wise, compared to 3E, LA has far fewer enumerated combat options/maneuvers, but this does not mean that the LA game offers anything other than endless possibilities. Standard LA combat options include: normal attack, aimed attack, parry, grapple, overbear, and diving to (and to avoid) attack. Only half of these (the first three) are presented to players in the Lejendary Rules for All Players. However, this works perfectly for my style of gaming, as I want players to be thinking less about the rules and thinking more outside of the box. I ask players to describe what they want their characters to do (rather than which rules they want to use) and I take it from there. These 6 maneuvers (in addition to the Ability Scores and Base Ratings used in the game) provide the LM with all the tools he or she needs to adjudicate any action a player can imagine (little modifiers applied logically to player description of character actions can go a long way, and LA does this quite well). Incidentally, I used to run my D&D games just like this, and while it worked well and players had more fun than with your typical D&D game, I've found that LA is better-geared towards doing this and has made my job as GM much, much easier. I would definitely say that despite the fewer hard-coded options available in LA, this game is perfectly suited for people who like to get creative.
I'll use last night's game as an example:
As you can tell, it really pays off to have a plan. Especially when you start looking at the list of situational modifiers--a whopping 60% bonus when catching someone totally off-guard (as they are an unresisting defender). This would equate to a +12 bonus in D&D--much, much greater than the Thief's backstab bonus. LA situational modifiers in general seem to be about doubly potent as the equivalent D&D ones, meaning the situation is at least as important as the game stat. For this reason, Avatars can easily operate in areas where they are unskilled, so long as they pick some of the easier tasks. And favorable modifiers are not at all rare in the LA game, with bonuses up to 30% "in cases where the task has been performed frequently and/or correctly in the past by the character"--in other words, routine stuff.
In D&D lingo, think of your unmodified LA check as being a DC 21. A 30% bonus then makes for the equivalent of DC 15, whereas that 60% bonus I was mentioning before would be the equivalent of DC 9. In D&D lingo, the approximate skill bonus is equal to one-fifth the LA percentile rating. So Gartak's Stealth ability is good for a +12 bonus in several areas (hiding, moving undetected, gaining access--just to state the ones mentioned in the above example). Two points of Health in LA equate to approximately 1 hit point (and this is very approximate, since the two systems are very different), and so you can see that Gartak has the skills of about an 8th or 9th level D&D character but the hit points of only a 4th or 5th level one. Granted, Gartak has a low Health compared to most LA starting Avatars, but you will find in general that LA characters, in D&D terms, tend to have higher skills and lower hit points. This certainly tends to make the game run a little differently.
And that different feel has been cited as Gary's reason for new terminology. But I find some of the terminology is just plain more convenient than more conventional terms. Instead of "Spells" LA has "Extraordinary Activations" (or Extraordinary Powers if you prefer). I find this better terminology because it is broader in application. This comes to light when you consider the Psychogenics ability--the powers there are not spells by anymeans, but rather psychic powers. One does not refer to psionics as "spells" in D&D, and such would certainly be inaccurate in LA. But by calling them activations or powers, you can talk about any such extraordinary ability use using the same vocabulary. Most RPGs these days have a "GM" despite "DM" being the accepted term prior to that. Clearly a the term "Game Master" is a better fit than "Dungeon Master" for most RPGs, and so that's what most RPGs use. The terminology in LA has been selected not only to be unique, but also to suit the game.
