Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Length and difficulty of combats
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Chzbro" data-source="post: 5157088" data-attributes="member: 83964"><p>I feel strongly that one of the biggest reasons why combats feel "easy" or that players don't feel challenged is that often monsters are chosen to fit into the xp "budget" rather than to compliment one another.</p><p></p><p>In my experience, there is more of an onus on the DM in this regard than is generally acknowledged. That's not to say that you can't just throw any group of monsters into a room and have an interesting fight; however, if you want a challenging fight that's not a grind you really need to be aware of how the powers/tactics of the monsters will interact. (Have a creature that does extra damage with combat advantage? Make sure he has was to get that CA or allies who can help provide it with more than just a flank. Have a ranged controller? Be sure he has allies that can take advantage of that control specifically.) If they play off of one another, even an even level fight will suddenly be much more frightening. If they don't, even a +4 encounter can be something of a snooze.</p><p></p><p>I even recommend taking it a step farther and modifying the encounters slightly to account for your particular play group (making it more fun for them, not intentionally trying to kill them). For example, one group I DM for is decidedly melee heavy. One or two well-guarded artillery can chew them up, so I make sure they have to work a little to get after such guys. On the other hand, if a solo (for example) has an immediate interrupt when targeted by a ranged attack, I know that won't be a factor so I might alter that power so that it actually will have an impact on combat.</p><p></p><p>While I'll certainly throw a creature of level +2-3 at my party, I try to keep the encounter level at +1 or so. The level +3 elites are typically brutes. The minions are often soldiers. This way, the big scary guys are big and scary, but not overly difficult to hit and the minions don't drop at the first strong gust of wind. By keeping all the opponents close to even level (although I do tend toward level +1), the fights rarely become grinds.</p><p></p><p>It's also important not to start every fight with the players on one side of the map and the monsters on the other. Have them get hit from two flanks, get skirmishers after their leader, find ways to create multiple fronts. Don't let them easily focus fire while protecting the leader/ranged in every fight.</p><p></p><p>This all takes a bit more work, but like anything, with practice it becomes more and more simple. Honestly though, without the Adventure Tools it would probably be a lot harder. I probably tweak 80% of the monsters I put into encounters, even if all I do is adjust levels or re-skin powers. In my game it's made a world of difference.</p><p></p><p>I have a strong, tactically-minded group, but using these strategies I can typically throw a scare into one or two of them every fight and have them ready for an extended rest after 2-3. Two sessions ago, this group (6 level 4s) squared off against a level 3 solo, a level 5 elite, and a couple waves of nasty even level minions (level +1 or 2 encounter). That fight made me nervous when I was planning it; I mean, I really do want them to win, after all. And in the end, it was a great success. They did win, but they weren't sure they were going to until the end...and everyone was beat up.</p><p></p><p>By no means am I saying that this is the only right way to DM, but it works for me. I, personally, prefer a combat that makes me sweat a little (as a player or DM).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Chzbro, post: 5157088, member: 83964"] I feel strongly that one of the biggest reasons why combats feel "easy" or that players don't feel challenged is that often monsters are chosen to fit into the xp "budget" rather than to compliment one another. In my experience, there is more of an onus on the DM in this regard than is generally acknowledged. That's not to say that you can't just throw any group of monsters into a room and have an interesting fight; however, if you want a challenging fight that's not a grind you really need to be aware of how the powers/tactics of the monsters will interact. (Have a creature that does extra damage with combat advantage? Make sure he has was to get that CA or allies who can help provide it with more than just a flank. Have a ranged controller? Be sure he has allies that can take advantage of that control specifically.) If they play off of one another, even an even level fight will suddenly be much more frightening. If they don't, even a +4 encounter can be something of a snooze. I even recommend taking it a step farther and modifying the encounters slightly to account for your particular play group (making it more fun for them, not intentionally trying to kill them). For example, one group I DM for is decidedly melee heavy. One or two well-guarded artillery can chew them up, so I make sure they have to work a little to get after such guys. On the other hand, if a solo (for example) has an immediate interrupt when targeted by a ranged attack, I know that won't be a factor so I might alter that power so that it actually will have an impact on combat. While I'll certainly throw a creature of level +2-3 at my party, I try to keep the encounter level at +1 or so. The level +3 elites are typically brutes. The minions are often soldiers. This way, the big scary guys are big and scary, but not overly difficult to hit and the minions don't drop at the first strong gust of wind. By keeping all the opponents close to even level (although I do tend toward level +1), the fights rarely become grinds. It's also important not to start every fight with the players on one side of the map and the monsters on the other. Have them get hit from two flanks, get skirmishers after their leader, find ways to create multiple fronts. Don't let them easily focus fire while protecting the leader/ranged in every fight. This all takes a bit more work, but like anything, with practice it becomes more and more simple. Honestly though, without the Adventure Tools it would probably be a lot harder. I probably tweak 80% of the monsters I put into encounters, even if all I do is adjust levels or re-skin powers. In my game it's made a world of difference. I have a strong, tactically-minded group, but using these strategies I can typically throw a scare into one or two of them every fight and have them ready for an extended rest after 2-3. Two sessions ago, this group (6 level 4s) squared off against a level 3 solo, a level 5 elite, and a couple waves of nasty even level minions (level +1 or 2 encounter). That fight made me nervous when I was planning it; I mean, I really do want them to win, after all. And in the end, it was a great success. They did win, but they weren't sure they were going to until the end...and everyone was beat up. By no means am I saying that this is the only right way to DM, but it works for me. I, personally, prefer a combat that makes me sweat a little (as a player or DM). [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Length and difficulty of combats
Top