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<blockquote data-quote="Riley37" data-source="post: 6579289" data-attributes="member: 6786839"><p>Hey now. Sometimes debate reaches agreement, sometimes it produces interesting and useful results without reaching agreement; friction always produces heat and only sometimes produces light. But IMO it's more likely to produce light if you address the things I actually said, and not some preposterous distortion of what I said.</p><p></p><p>What I actually said: "By that logic, the DM of the "Lord of the Rings" campaign was an utter failure, in every combat scene from Moria onwards, since the PCs demonstrated that they could win direct armed conflicts at Weathertop - and that was with Aragorn as the party's only expert stabber, before the addition of Legolas "and my bow", Gimli "and my axe", and Boromir."</p><p></p><p>Notice, that does NOT say that the encounter at Weathertop was trivially easy. It was not. Before Weathertop, the PC team had zero experience of winning armed encounters; "we fight them and win" had no precedent. And, as you say, Aragorn had to drive off (or disable) the attackers *without* taking unacceptable losses among his untrained comrades.</p><p></p><p>The idea that Aragorn might have forgotten to use fire, though, is laughable, given Aragorn's background. "ferrō flammāque" and all that.</p><p></p><p>Anyways, Aragorn demonstrated at Weathertop that he was sufficiently skilled in arms, to drive off four ringwraiths. Then, at Rivendell, Legolas, Gimli and Boromir join the party. From Rivendell onwards, any armed fight against any lesser foe, such as bands of wolves or orcs, can be handwaved as "okay, you stab them repeatedly, we know how that ends".</p><p></p><p>The Balrog was beyond the set of challenges that Aragorn and his team could handle by "insert pointy end". You could use THAT to poke a hole in *what I actually said*. Would you like to edit your post?</p><p></p><p>"My original meaning was that if the DM reruns the same or a substantially similar encounter with the expectation that next time they will somehow get a better story result, then everyone involved will be disappointed."</p><p></p><p>Now THAT's an interesting statement. As in, exploring it might lead to some posts which help EnWorlders run (or play) better game sessions. What if the DM runs a substantially similar encounter with the expectation of getting an *equal* story result, and finds that adequate for satisfaction?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Riley37, post: 6579289, member: 6786839"] Hey now. Sometimes debate reaches agreement, sometimes it produces interesting and useful results without reaching agreement; friction always produces heat and only sometimes produces light. But IMO it's more likely to produce light if you address the things I actually said, and not some preposterous distortion of what I said. What I actually said: "By that logic, the DM of the "Lord of the Rings" campaign was an utter failure, in every combat scene from Moria onwards, since the PCs demonstrated that they could win direct armed conflicts at Weathertop - and that was with Aragorn as the party's only expert stabber, before the addition of Legolas "and my bow", Gimli "and my axe", and Boromir." Notice, that does NOT say that the encounter at Weathertop was trivially easy. It was not. Before Weathertop, the PC team had zero experience of winning armed encounters; "we fight them and win" had no precedent. And, as you say, Aragorn had to drive off (or disable) the attackers *without* taking unacceptable losses among his untrained comrades. The idea that Aragorn might have forgotten to use fire, though, is laughable, given Aragorn's background. "ferrō flammāque" and all that. Anyways, Aragorn demonstrated at Weathertop that he was sufficiently skilled in arms, to drive off four ringwraiths. Then, at Rivendell, Legolas, Gimli and Boromir join the party. From Rivendell onwards, any armed fight against any lesser foe, such as bands of wolves or orcs, can be handwaved as "okay, you stab them repeatedly, we know how that ends". The Balrog was beyond the set of challenges that Aragorn and his team could handle by "insert pointy end". You could use THAT to poke a hole in *what I actually said*. Would you like to edit your post? "My original meaning was that if the DM reruns the same or a substantially similar encounter with the expectation that next time they will somehow get a better story result, then everyone involved will be disappointed." Now THAT's an interesting statement. As in, exploring it might lead to some posts which help EnWorlders run (or play) better game sessions. What if the DM runs a substantially similar encounter with the expectation of getting an *equal* story result, and finds that adequate for satisfaction? [/QUOTE]
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