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<blockquote data-quote="Riley37" data-source="post: 6580977" data-attributes="member: 6786839"><p>People with spies, assassins, and allies (by loyalty or by bribery) inside the castle. That's who.</p><p></p><p>In general, you've got a set of good points. I rather like the Thermopylae/Rhine reference. Using LTH to close a route is not always so easy, just by itself.</p><p></p><p>On another hand, what if *both sides* are able and willing to evolve counter-measures, on an ongoing basis?</p><p></p><p>Wizard casts LTH on a drawbridge. Orcs place ladders up and over the LTH. Orc army starts to swarm across those ladders. Wizard drops Delayed Blast Fireball, then dimension-doors back to safe location inside castle. (Or possibly jumps down a trap door in drawbridge, and uses a pre-prepared zip-line under the drawbridge, thus saving a spell slot.) LTH collapses. Delayed Blast Fireball detonates. Earth-shattering kaboom ensues, right where Company J of the orc army was swarming over ladders.</p><p></p><p>Orc general shrugs, orders remainder of Company J to withdraw, summons shaman for consultation on next round of siege strategy.</p><p></p><p>In this story, LTH is neither an automatic "I win" card, and nor is it "meh, that's useless". It's a tool, used in conjunction with other tools. </p><p></p><p>As attackers get desperately clever to storm the castle despite the defenses, and as defenders seek more and more clever uses of LTH, precise details start to matter more and more. "Creatures and objects within the dome when you cast this spell can move through it freely". Does that include, say, casting LTH over a pile of bombs, and then lighting a bomb's fuze and pushing it through the wall of force, so that it detonates just outside the wall... repeatedly, while the supply of bombs lasts? What happens if someone on the outside sees the bomb emerging through the wall, and pushes back, and the fuze burns down while the bomb is halfway through?</p><p></p><p>The warrior who was inside LTH when it was cast, and his quiver full of arrows, may pass "freely" through the dome of force. Therefore, he can fire those arrows at targets outside the dome. Can those targets pick up the arrows, and fire them back into the dome? If they dip the arrows in pitch, ignite the pitch, and THEN shoot the arrows back: the arrow is material which can pass through the wall of force, but the flaming pitch is not. What happens?</p><p></p><p>If you remove all the earth or rock beneath LTH, what happens? Assuming that LTH has a floor made of equally impervious magical force, then what happens if the attackers dig a pit underneath it, 30' wide and 100' deep, and wait for the end of the duration? LTH goes poof, and everything that was inside it falls 100'? (onto poisoned spikes, of course.)</p><p></p><p>LTH can be used as a bomb shelter against Meteor Swarm, and can endure a full 10-minute-duration Call Lightning barrage. The Tarrasque cannot push through it, or push it aside. A Storm Giant can whack it for hours with a +3 maul, and it won't be dented. You could bury it under hundreds of tons of lava, and it still won't take any damage. (Though when duration expires, the inhabitants may then be in trouble.) That's a LOT of power for a third-level spell.</p><p></p><p>LTH is problematic because it's written partly as if no one would ever use it for anything other than a safe rest location, and partly as if it could be used flexibly, for any purpose which could benefit from a one-way-visibility, selectively permeable barrier of unbreakable magic force.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Riley37, post: 6580977, member: 6786839"] People with spies, assassins, and allies (by loyalty or by bribery) inside the castle. That's who. In general, you've got a set of good points. I rather like the Thermopylae/Rhine reference. Using LTH to close a route is not always so easy, just by itself. On another hand, what if *both sides* are able and willing to evolve counter-measures, on an ongoing basis? Wizard casts LTH on a drawbridge. Orcs place ladders up and over the LTH. Orc army starts to swarm across those ladders. Wizard drops Delayed Blast Fireball, then dimension-doors back to safe location inside castle. (Or possibly jumps down a trap door in drawbridge, and uses a pre-prepared zip-line under the drawbridge, thus saving a spell slot.) LTH collapses. Delayed Blast Fireball detonates. Earth-shattering kaboom ensues, right where Company J of the orc army was swarming over ladders. Orc general shrugs, orders remainder of Company J to withdraw, summons shaman for consultation on next round of siege strategy. In this story, LTH is neither an automatic "I win" card, and nor is it "meh, that's useless". It's a tool, used in conjunction with other tools. As attackers get desperately clever to storm the castle despite the defenses, and as defenders seek more and more clever uses of LTH, precise details start to matter more and more. "Creatures and objects within the dome when you cast this spell can move through it freely". Does that include, say, casting LTH over a pile of bombs, and then lighting a bomb's fuze and pushing it through the wall of force, so that it detonates just outside the wall... repeatedly, while the supply of bombs lasts? What happens if someone on the outside sees the bomb emerging through the wall, and pushes back, and the fuze burns down while the bomb is halfway through? The warrior who was inside LTH when it was cast, and his quiver full of arrows, may pass "freely" through the dome of force. Therefore, he can fire those arrows at targets outside the dome. Can those targets pick up the arrows, and fire them back into the dome? If they dip the arrows in pitch, ignite the pitch, and THEN shoot the arrows back: the arrow is material which can pass through the wall of force, but the flaming pitch is not. What happens? If you remove all the earth or rock beneath LTH, what happens? Assuming that LTH has a floor made of equally impervious magical force, then what happens if the attackers dig a pit underneath it, 30' wide and 100' deep, and wait for the end of the duration? LTH goes poof, and everything that was inside it falls 100'? (onto poisoned spikes, of course.) LTH can be used as a bomb shelter against Meteor Swarm, and can endure a full 10-minute-duration Call Lightning barrage. The Tarrasque cannot push through it, or push it aside. A Storm Giant can whack it for hours with a +3 maul, and it won't be dented. You could bury it under hundreds of tons of lava, and it still won't take any damage. (Though when duration expires, the inhabitants may then be in trouble.) That's a LOT of power for a third-level spell. LTH is problematic because it's written partly as if no one would ever use it for anything other than a safe rest location, and partly as if it could be used flexibly, for any purpose which could benefit from a one-way-visibility, selectively permeable barrier of unbreakable magic force. [/QUOTE]
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