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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 5041013" data-attributes="member: 82106">I think fundamentally forced movement and all but the most abstract handling of CA are simply diametrically opposed to the whole notion of abstract combat. This is one of the real difficulties with trying to do mapless 4e. If it was just a couple of oddball class features or something like that you could work it out, but forced movement, the movement effects of conditions, etc plays a central role in 4e. It is really so central that a good chunk of most martial classes revolves around it and a LOT of character builds center around stacking various feats and powers in order to achieve specific types of effects. Even if you can create a analog to each such feat or power for mapless use they won't mesh together in the same way and it will make a big difference in how characters are built. In other words I think you pretty much have to realize that playing 4e mapless is really more than just a bit of house ruling. Its really a whole different game. Could well be a fun game, but I don't think there's really a lot of profit in worrying about how similar it is to standard 4e. Instead make it a fun system that does what you want and then figure out how to translate powers and whatnot when people pick them.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 5041013, member: 82106"] I think fundamentally forced movement and all but the most abstract handling of CA are simply diametrically opposed to the whole notion of abstract combat. This is one of the real difficulties with trying to do mapless 4e. If it was just a couple of oddball class features or something like that you could work it out, but forced movement, the movement effects of conditions, etc plays a central role in 4e. It is really so central that a good chunk of most martial classes revolves around it and a LOT of character builds center around stacking various feats and powers in order to achieve specific types of effects. Even if you can create a analog to each such feat or power for mapless use they won't mesh together in the same way and it will make a big difference in how characters are built. In other words I think you pretty much have to realize that playing 4e mapless is really more than just a bit of house ruling. Its really a whole different game. Could well be a fun game, but I don't think there's really a lot of profit in worrying about how similar it is to standard 4e. Instead make it a fun system that does what you want and then figure out how to translate powers and whatnot when people pick them. [/QUOTE]

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