Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Let’s Read Mordenkainen Presents: Monsters of the Multiverse.
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Leatherhead" data-source="post: 8678205" data-attributes="member: 53176"><p>CR would be more useful if you split up the numbers into Offence Rating and Defense Rating. But even then its only a measure of DPR.</p><p>To get a better read on now deadly a monster is, you would need to take into account its Mobility, Range, Action Economy, and Special Win Conditions.</p><p></p><p>For Speed there are really only three numbers you need to consider: </p><p>Anything below 30 speed without a ranged attack and/or a movement ability is a chump. A DM is going to have to compensate for slow monsters like these.</p><p>40' speed is the bare minimum I would recommend for a melee-only monster. Humanoids can be slower, but most humanoids can also wield ranged weapons or spells to compensate. </p><p>With 60' or more of speed, a monster can render short range attacks useless, which happens to be the bulk of ranged attacks. Mounted combatants can easily reach this speed, which is why horses are so dangerous in combat.</p><p></p><p>The rest of Speed concerns special movement types. Does the creature have any of them? If so, they are more deadly. In most cases, when given an appropriate environment, there isn't a functional difference between Climbing, Swimming, or Flying, they all add 3d into the combat.</p><p>Teleportation is good, but not as good as magical transportation would imply. While you can use it to break out of a trap or grapple, use it as a Disengage, or reposition yourself regardless of interposing obstacles, you are still limited by your other movement types. You can't teleport into the air and expect to survive without a supporting fly speed, for example. And often Teleportation is limited by x number of uses or some other factor (such as only into shadows). </p><p>Burrowing, on the other hand, is on a whole other level. It can do the 3D combat, and provide up to total cover for the creature to attack from below. Handily the most dangerous form of movement.</p><p></p><p>For range, there are 5 basic categories:</p><p>15' or less (basically Melee), 20-60 (short), Up to 80' (Mid), Up to 100' (long), 120'+ (Extreme).</p><p>Extreme Ranged combat basically turns anything anything Mid Range or lower into pincushions.</p><p></p><p>Action Economy is "How many Actions can this monster negate, or create." Because CR is calculated by Tank-and-Spank metrics, where the combatants just trade DPR with each other, and the Action Economy functions as a Force Multiplier for DPR. You could go as far as saying that Actions are true currency of combat and DPR is just a tax to play with a given CR.</p><p></p><p>Special win conditions are things like Stat Damage, or knocking targets Unconscious. Anything that lets them bypass the HP mechanic entirely. These effects completely throw the DPR out the window, and often just kill the PCs outright over the course of a single battle.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Leatherhead, post: 8678205, member: 53176"] CR would be more useful if you split up the numbers into Offence Rating and Defense Rating. But even then its only a measure of DPR. To get a better read on now deadly a monster is, you would need to take into account its Mobility, Range, Action Economy, and Special Win Conditions. For Speed there are really only three numbers you need to consider: Anything below 30 speed without a ranged attack and/or a movement ability is a chump. A DM is going to have to compensate for slow monsters like these. 40' speed is the bare minimum I would recommend for a melee-only monster. Humanoids can be slower, but most humanoids can also wield ranged weapons or spells to compensate. With 60' or more of speed, a monster can render short range attacks useless, which happens to be the bulk of ranged attacks. Mounted combatants can easily reach this speed, which is why horses are so dangerous in combat. The rest of Speed concerns special movement types. Does the creature have any of them? If so, they are more deadly. In most cases, when given an appropriate environment, there isn't a functional difference between Climbing, Swimming, or Flying, they all add 3d into the combat. Teleportation is good, but not as good as magical transportation would imply. While you can use it to break out of a trap or grapple, use it as a Disengage, or reposition yourself regardless of interposing obstacles, you are still limited by your other movement types. You can't teleport into the air and expect to survive without a supporting fly speed, for example. And often Teleportation is limited by x number of uses or some other factor (such as only into shadows). Burrowing, on the other hand, is on a whole other level. It can do the 3D combat, and provide up to total cover for the creature to attack from below. Handily the most dangerous form of movement. For range, there are 5 basic categories: 15' or less (basically Melee), 20-60 (short), Up to 80' (Mid), Up to 100' (long), 120'+ (Extreme). Extreme Ranged combat basically turns anything anything Mid Range or lower into pincushions. Action Economy is "How many Actions can this monster negate, or create." Because CR is calculated by Tank-and-Spank metrics, where the combatants just trade DPR with each other, and the Action Economy functions as a Force Multiplier for DPR. You could go as far as saying that Actions are true currency of combat and DPR is just a tax to play with a given CR. Special win conditions are things like Stat Damage, or knocking targets Unconscious. Anything that lets them bypass the HP mechanic entirely. These effects completely throw the DPR out the window, and often just kill the PCs outright over the course of a single battle. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Let’s Read Mordenkainen Presents: Monsters of the Multiverse.
Top