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<blockquote data-quote="Helldritch" data-source="post: 8194432" data-attributes="member: 6855114"><p>The players can and will use the same tactics. You accuse me of crude metagaming where I should accuse you of carebear(ing) your players.</p><p>As per the rules, monsters and foes die at 0hp. So yes, in a sense, the players can't because the monsters is surely dead. But with regenerative monsters, unless you apply fire or acid or whatever, they are not dead and as such, an extra step must be taken by the players to "finish" these monsters. If I were to follow your logic, I should not allow the application of fire on a troll as it is a crude unfair metagaming towards the troll...</p><p></p><p>"No Bob, you can't apply fire to the troll unless its allies are downed too. It would be Metagaming you know that." Do you realize how silly this sounds????? Players can apply fire to the troll, using a precious action. Monsters has to do this 3 times over to make the same assumption. Who's advantaged by the rules here?</p><p></p><p>As for your accusation of gritty realism. BS! I know and you do too, that it is way more than this single aspect. Accusing me of considering only one aspect and claiming that I do not what it is... Relax! You should broaden your perspective and stop narrowing the other to the pin point aspect you wish for to make you "right". It is not because the no holds barred is one of the aspects of gritty realism that it is the only one! Assuming that the person in front of you do not know that is demeaning. Assume that it is one aspect of the gritty realism that is used and the end of it all. You assume a lot more that what is written and gleefully ignored the rest.</p><p></p><p>The narrative and the logic behind it all is solid, not meta and rule abiding. Take this example.</p><p>The giants are happy to have finally fell Sir WallofSteel. A powerful cheer comes for the 5 giants at once! You're next! One of them says as he points Fastfingers the rogue that has been pestering him with hurtful cuts on his legs.</p><p>Not so! says Bandaid the Cleric! And with a single word, Sir Wallof Steel is up to the dismay of the giants. With a look of horror, they see Sir WallofSteel's wounds close before their very eyes as he invokes the power of his god to heal himself! The fight goes on again, and afters a few exchange of blows, one fire giant goes down with a powerful smite and Sir WallofSteel falls again to a lucky blow from one of the giant. The three remaining giants do not cheer this time. They know that Sir WallofSteel might come back from what should have been a mortal wound. One of them try to strike Sir WallofSteel with it's great sword but misses twice because it is still attacked by Fastfingers (the giant hits but only causes two failed death save). The second crushes Sir WallofSteel's head under its foot to the absolute horror of the group. "Try to get back up from that! Insect!" Yells the giant. The last one, moves in on Fastfingers and throws its last boulder at her but misses. The other three eye Bandaid suspiciously and start to close in on him. Jack the Sorcerer Supreme starts and other invokation of cone of cold...</p><p></p><p>Do you really consider that metagaming? The giants react and act very plausibly. I know that I'd do the same if I were in their place. The guy got back up and killed one of them. In this case, you make sure that your opponent will not come back. Imagine now if Sir WallofSteel has a ring of regeneration...</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Helldritch, post: 8194432, member: 6855114"] The players can and will use the same tactics. You accuse me of crude metagaming where I should accuse you of carebear(ing) your players. As per the rules, monsters and foes die at 0hp. So yes, in a sense, the players can't because the monsters is surely dead. But with regenerative monsters, unless you apply fire or acid or whatever, they are not dead and as such, an extra step must be taken by the players to "finish" these monsters. If I were to follow your logic, I should not allow the application of fire on a troll as it is a crude unfair metagaming towards the troll... "No Bob, you can't apply fire to the troll unless its allies are downed too. It would be Metagaming you know that." Do you realize how silly this sounds????? Players can apply fire to the troll, using a precious action. Monsters has to do this 3 times over to make the same assumption. Who's advantaged by the rules here? As for your accusation of gritty realism. BS! I know and you do too, that it is way more than this single aspect. Accusing me of considering only one aspect and claiming that I do not what it is... Relax! You should broaden your perspective and stop narrowing the other to the pin point aspect you wish for to make you "right". It is not because the no holds barred is one of the aspects of gritty realism that it is the only one! Assuming that the person in front of you do not know that is demeaning. Assume that it is one aspect of the gritty realism that is used and the end of it all. You assume a lot more that what is written and gleefully ignored the rest. The narrative and the logic behind it all is solid, not meta and rule abiding. Take this example. The giants are happy to have finally fell Sir WallofSteel. A powerful cheer comes for the 5 giants at once! You're next! One of them says as he points Fastfingers the rogue that has been pestering him with hurtful cuts on his legs. Not so! says Bandaid the Cleric! And with a single word, Sir Wallof Steel is up to the dismay of the giants. With a look of horror, they see Sir WallofSteel's wounds close before their very eyes as he invokes the power of his god to heal himself! The fight goes on again, and afters a few exchange of blows, one fire giant goes down with a powerful smite and Sir WallofSteel falls again to a lucky blow from one of the giant. The three remaining giants do not cheer this time. They know that Sir WallofSteel might come back from what should have been a mortal wound. One of them try to strike Sir WallofSteel with it's great sword but misses twice because it is still attacked by Fastfingers (the giant hits but only causes two failed death save). The second crushes Sir WallofSteel's head under its foot to the absolute horror of the group. "Try to get back up from that! Insect!" Yells the giant. The last one, moves in on Fastfingers and throws its last boulder at her but misses. The other three eye Bandaid suspiciously and start to close in on him. Jack the Sorcerer Supreme starts and other invokation of cone of cold... Do you really consider that metagaming? The giants react and act very plausibly. I know that I'd do the same if I were in their place. The guy got back up and killed one of them. In this case, you make sure that your opponent will not come back. Imagine now if Sir WallofSteel has a ring of regeneration... [/QUOTE]
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